Lets talk tyres

[mogu83]

[quote="Kieran R1200R]
May I suguest something without trying to sound big headed if that's the right words to use!
The milage you are quoting out of your tyres is truly amazing to me. 9 to 10,000 miles is something I have never got even from tyres back in the 70ies.
To get milage out of tyres like that you are curtainly riding very concurvative and I can understand it as it seems the bike is your daly commute.
I personly think that a tyre like the PP2 or any duell compound tyre for you is a complete waste.
The present set of modern sport touring rubber would be up to the likes of Wanye Gardner World Chappion GP rider back in the 80/90s bike was shode with, the tyres are that good.
And unless you intend on doing track days is a total waste of your money.
.
My point is we all fancy ourselfs as sporty riders and put Sport rubber on our bikes but in essence are just throwing money away.
Now I have found the PP I'll try and stick with it as long as it's up for offer.
:[/quote]

You put it nicely.
It always amazes (puzzles) me when some one puts on the best suspension, high traction racing tyres and engine go fast goodies and then goes out and plods along the road at Grandma speeds. The standard tyres and suspension that are available today are way above the requirements of the average rider, the manufactures usually show some guy on a race bike and push some item that is useless for the average rider. When I see one of these bikes with all the go fast stuff, and I know that on his/her best day the rider could never come close to using half the potential of the equipment, I envision a wheelbarrow with a 14 inch wide racing tyre on it.

[deilenberger]

May I suguest something without trying to sound big headed if that's the right words to use!
The milage you are quoting out of your tyres is truly ammasing to me. 9 to 10,000 miles is something I have never got even from tyres back in the 70ies.
To get milage out of tyres like that you are curtainly riding very concurvative and I can understand it as it seems the bike is your daly commute.

There aren't many opportunities to ride un-conservatively on my daily commute. Or most anywhere in NJ actually. The only fun roads are few and far between, and usually involve a longish distance on highway to get to. Usually the best part of a ride is when you get out of NJ.

I personly think that a tyre like the PP2 or any duell compound tyre for you is a complete waste.
You may as well get a set of Morathons and get 15,000 miles out of them for what riding you are doing.

Possibly.. but..

Even at 6/10ths of riding they would be up for the job.
I mention this because as I have started the post I think we are exactly playing into the hipe the tyre manufacturers marketing department are targetting us for.
The present set of modern sport touring rubber would be up to the likes of Wanye Gardner World Chappion GP rider back in the 80/90s bike was shode with, the tyres are that good.
And unless you intend on doing track days is a total waste of your money.

Here is the but:

1. I can feel the difference in grip. I used to run Dunlop K491's on my early K bikes. And the difference between them and a modern tire are night and day. The grip on a modern tire gives you some confidence, and you don't feel like you're riding on ice. Is this still true on the standard Pilot Road? I know the PR2 had the feel of better grip vs a set of Conti RoadAttacks (a "touring/sport" tire..)

2. You NEVER know when you'll need the 4/10ths of the performance that you're not using. Everyday riding may be 6/10ths - but that swerve to avoid the left-turner might well push the tire to 10/10ths of it's performance capability. Sort of like ABS - you don't need it UNTIL you need it - and when you do - it can be a lifesaver. The hard tires also suck big time in the wet (and on tar-strips.)

Of course this might not be the case with the standard PilotRoad. From what people say - it's probably a "Touring/Sport" tire. I think the PR2 was supposed to be a "Touring/Sport" tire that also gave good mileage. Hence the dual-compound rubber.

I ride reasonable hard when I take the bike out as I don't ride every day, so when I get to take the bike out I really let go.
I have used the latest sport rubber for what it is intended for and was complaining of the lake of milage I was getting.
Some tyres like the Bridgestone 016 I have only got 2500km from a front, what's that in miles? because of that duell compound setup. And that was from a good mix of corners vs straights. The duell compound was not up for transition from straight to lean and back. There for really bad ridges ---- formed just off centre.

Which are what I see on the PR2's.

The Michelin Pilot Road are marketed as just TOURING and are up to the same riding I do and are also returning great milage too.
That's what I was shairing with you guy's just incase you have not tried a set, thay are truly that good. And for the wet I can't believe the grip offered. I don't like ridding in wet conditions but I got caught this day about 70km away from home and found myself going faster and faster to get home and was ostonished by the level of grip the tyre gave.

I've considered the standard PR (which is what some of the R12R's came with from the factory..) If it offers the wet capability of a newish PR2 it would probably be quite satisfactory.

I haven't used any other TOURING tyre out there but I am sure there would be others that would offer similer character.
My point is we all fancy ourselfs as sporty riders and put Sport rubber on our bikes but in essence are just throwing money away.
Now I have found the PP I'll try and stick with it as long as it's up for offer.
As for your high side if it was caused by the tyre it is probably caused by the way the tyres is waring which is due to your riding style where that particular tyre is not designed for!
So lucky to keep the bike up! Well done Don! Shaken but not Stured

Possible - but this was fairly early in the trip, and the tire hadn't yet taken on the usual ridges that I could see. It was still fairly round (the Lighthouse Trail on NS is nothing but twisties.. not high speed since the pavement is very rough, but the sides of the tires were seeing some use..)

I think I tend to agree with you.. I'm leaning more toward a "Touring/Sport" tire over the "Sport/Touring" - and am thinking the dual-compound rubber isn't a good match for me. The everyday riding I do probably makes the ridge (transition) problem worse then someone who has twisties every day, but if what I see is common, I think these tires do wonderfully in tests when new, and probably less wonderfully in everyday use as miles pile up.

As far as keeping the bike up? Possibly some old dirt-bike riding skills kicked in, but also a lot of luck. Sorta like the time I completely oiled my rear tire in the beginning of an S curve. To this day I have no idea how the bike stayed upright.

Interesting discussion..

[Dad2g5]

Hey Don just curious. Whats your average daily speed on your commute? And what is your average daily top speed?

[deilenberger]

Hey Don just curious. Whats your average daily speed on your commute? And what is your average daily top speed?

37.5 MPH on backroads route, ~40 MPH if I take the highway route to work, and about 70-75 MPH top speed if I'm lucky.. although once in a while (mebbe 3-4 times a month) I manage to achieve NJ Turnpike Official Cruising Speed of 80MPH.. No matter which way you go in NJ - a higher average speed is almost impossible to attain due to the excessive number of traffic lights and traffic jams. Only on the toll roads are higher average speeds attainable. (I think the first day on my trip to NS - my average speed was > 50MPH according to my GPS.. which meant most of it was spent on limited access highway. It probably would have been higher if not for crossing Vermont on Rt 9..)

[Jed]

The milage you are quoting out of your tyres is truly ammasing to me. 9 to 10,000 miles is something I have never got even from tyres back in the 70ies.
To get milage out of tyres like that you are curtainly riding very concurvative and I can understand it as it seems the bike is your daly commute.

Hi all,

Long time lurker, 1st post. I bought a 2010 R12R at the end of April and after 8500 miles, I'm a bit disappointed to find out that I need to replace both tires due to abnormal wear-patterns. I had followed the manual's recommendations, checked the pressures with a new (and not cheap) gauge regularly. My local independent BMW service guy tells me that I'm running the tires with too little air and need to raise my pressures all around. He suggests 40 psi in front and 42+ in the rear. I was running 35 front, 40 read.

I've been trying to "push" the bike and "test" the brakes whenever I can but being over 50 yo and having all the financial and work commitments that go with my age means that I must be riding more conservatively that I had thought, although that's still a good deal more aggressive than the local constabulary would like.

So it seams that 8,000 miles on a pair of tires is about average? I'm running Metzeler Z6's front and rear and try as I might, I don't have the opportunity / roads / talent / courage to even scrape my pegs never mind get rid of the chicken strips, at least not and keep my license and my body intact. I'm not happy about having to replace the tires so often, but if that's the price I have to pay to believe I'm as safe as my skills will allow - than so be it.

my R12R:
Blue, Touring package, no ABS (just that way I want it), it's the BMW I've wanted since I was 20, I love the engine, I hate the seat (Comfort Seat indeed! ), I'm surviving the lack of a decent wind screen (at least during the warm weather). I'm not big into farkles but plan to replace the shocks with Ohlins, the seat with a Rick Meyer and the exhaust with a Remus full system once the shock to my finances fades from memory.

cheers,

Jed, NH

[Dad2g5]

Hey Don thats why your tires last so long. Not tire make or belt sanding. Your not coming even close to pushing those tires to the limit or their potential at those speeds. You should try and get tires meant for touring or even cruising. Sport tires are meant to be ridden hard. Good luck with your next tire choice.

[deilenberger]

Hey Don thats why your tires last so long. Not tire make or belt sanding. Your not coming even close to pushing those tires to the limit or their potential at those speeds. You should try and get tires meant for touring or even cruising. Sport tires are meant to be ridden hard. Good luck with your next tire choice.

I think you missed my point. I have tried touring/cruising tires - I don't like how they feel. The PR's are not race tires - they are "Sport/Touring" - which pretty much defines our bikes. (EDIT - also note, the mileage I can report on the PR2's isn't considered "high" for them. Lots of people are reporting well over 12,000 miles from a set. The most I think I've seen is 17,000 miles..)

Yes - I have a boring commute which might be better served by other tires, but I also take off whenever I can looking for twisties. I'm in West Virginia (God's State for Motorcyclists) at least once a year (often more frequently), and I try to take my 2 week annual summer tour someplace where straight roads are an exception (like Nova Scotia.) Since I can't afford a spare set of rims/tires/brakes so I could quickly swap tires, I'm stuck with buying the tires I need for my most ambitious/agressive rides, not my normal day to day rides.

Since I also don't let rain stop me from riding, I need tires that are good in the rain, and the new tire compounds (found on the "sport/touring" tires) with high silica content (and apparently Conti added carbon to the equation) works wonderfully in the rain. Those compounds aren't found on cruiser tires..

As I mentioned before - I'm a 6/10ths rider, but that doesn't mean there is never a time when I *need* 10/10ths of the performance potential of the bike/tires/etc. It seems like somehow in Nova Scotia I got to 11/10ths without any particular reason. I'm still trying to figure that out (the people behind me noticed the rear wheel simply step out about a foot to the right, then swing back in.. and hook up, and I was headed for the ditch. Go figure..)

[Kieran R1200R]

These are the tyres that I store in my garage.
The ones I am pointing to are the 016 Brigestone duell compound that I chucked after the front wore before the back.
When i put these on my R1200S that felt like all new tyres great but after a day out on them the front sure started to show it's ware. the ridges on the front are usually consisthant with running into a corner off the throttle which I don't. For me the mix of the hard compound in the middle and the soft in the side and softer again on the edge was not the right mix. I would say to get the benifit of the middle to match the side and the edge you would have to ride from Adelaide to Melbourne and back again then do some corner work for them to ware at a even pace. Personally they wore total crap, needless to say would never buy a duell compound again.

http://img121.imageshack.us/img121/3366/1001966x.jpg
http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/8361/1001967a.jpg
http://img710.imageshack.us/img710/8910/1001968d.jpg
http://img340.imageshack.us/img340/79/1001969o.jpg

[thepeacebullgrunt]

Hi !

"Peacebull3000" my bike will soon need a new set of tire... I always used PilotRoadII but I don't think my riding behavior really matches the excellent design of those tires.

So I was wondering if you could recommend me an alternative ?

Requirements are: 1) Long lasting and not as easy to square out...maybe harder compound
2) Harder compound (Planning to use a tire sealant this time)
3) Overall good handling and grip (I do %80 City Commute and %20 Off city)

Thanks for reading !

[hjsbmw]

I'm on my second set of Pilot Road 2's. They are a wonderful tire for about the first 3,000 miles. They become less wonderful after that due to the rather odd wear patterns that start to appear. There are ridges that form about 1.25" off center on the back and about 3/4" off center on the front. The fronts eventually become bad enough that the tire starts to howl at me.. some cupping of the ridges is also observed on the front.

...

I've also run several sets of Conti Road-Attacks - the fronts wore about perfectly, the rear did square off some with miles (and was squared off enough at 6k that I replaced them.) Fronts would last 12k miles without being excessively worn. I may go back to them, or try the regular Pilot Roads.

Why couldn't one just use a Pilot Road on the rear and a Road Attack in the front, or some similarly mixed and matched pair? It sounds to me as if that would be the best of both worlds: glue and even wear in front and long lasting tread on the back.

[celticus]

I’ve got friends I ride with who ride airheads and KLRs with semi knobby tires who take the corners just as fast as the folks on the new bike do. Seems like they change their tires less often and certainly spend about half the money on them. It makes me wonder. I DO like to have good tires under me though. Currently I am shod with PR2s. On my third set. I have not noticed a need yet for a belt sander. Maybe I’m not paying attention.

Mark

[mogu83]

I don't think KLRs or Airheads are dealing with the weight or performance possibilities that we're dealing with.
OTOH: I also ride a Valkyrie, it's a heavy bike (800+ lbs) and I ride it just as hard as I ride the R1200R (at least till parts start grinding off). I'm running Metzler Marathons and regularly get 15+K out of a set of tires, they usually still have tread oh them when they go in the garbage. They wear evenly no flat spot, ridges or cupping.
Going back to the original post I wonder if we're just fooling ourselves by using high performance tires on these bikes when a good touring tire would fit the bill.

This is my second set of PR2's and I'm starting to get a ridge where the two compounds come together. I wonder if they use something to bond the two compounds that doesn't wear as fast as either of the two compounds.

Anyone know what the tire of choice is for the R1200RT guys, or are they also sucked into this high performance tire thing.

[deilenberger]

This is my second set of PR2's and I'm starting to get a ridge where the two compounds come together. I wonder if they use something to bond the two compounds that doesn't wear as fast as either of the two compounds.

Just ride over Harry - I have the belt sander loaded and ready (actually have to get a few new belts for it..)

[ShinySideUp]

Actually, Harry, I'd expect the Valkyrie to get better mileage. More weight keeps the rear from slipping under acceleration which, according to one manufacturer's website, is the main reason light, powerful motorcycles go through rear tires so fast.

Of course, you might get some slippage when the tire's weight is unloaded, as you come up onto those steel bits you're grinding down in the corners.

I'm getting nice mileage out of my first set of PRII's. 13K so far, but the rear is looking like not too much more.

[Sander Abernathy]

Don:

I've given it a lot of thought and I think you should get any tires you want. If you were spending my money on tires I might feel differently but last I checked that wasn't the case.

If you do decide to go with a set of low performance tires let's swap shocks. My oems for your hyperpros since you don't need them with low performance tires.

Finally, and on a serious note, I thought there were single compound high performance tires. Instead of varying the compound to make the sides sticky they vary the tension of the belt. That doesn't mean your tires will last longer but your belt sander might. I read a review of some in one the magazines in the past month (Motorcyclist or Sport Rider) and they had a very favorable review. Wait all of their reviews are favorable. I wonder if the manufacturers of the products they review advertise in those magazines and give the editorial staff free stuff?

(not the belt) Sander

[deilenberger]

Don:

I've given it a lot of thought and I think you should get any tires you want. If you were spending my money on tires I might feel differently but last I checked that wasn't the case.

My thoughts exactly.. my $$, my tires. I'm just reporting what I experienced with them in case other people are considering them.

If you do decide to go with a set of low performance tires let's swap shocks. My oems for your hyperpros since you don't need them with low performance tires.

Sounds like a plan, until the moment when something happens when I want ALL the grip the tires can possibly provide (or all the suspension control the Hyperpro shocks can give..) I don't ride 10/10ths - but we ALL can end up in situations where a stickier tire or better suspension might help us avoid something we don't want, like a crash.

Finally, and on a serious note, I thought there were single compound high performance tires. Instead of varying the compound to make the sides sticky they vary the tension of the belt. That doesn't mean your tires will last longer but your belt sander might. I read a review of some in one the magazines in the past month (Motorcyclist or Sport Rider) and they had a very favorable review. Wait all of their reviews are favorable. I wonder if the manufacturers of the products they review advertise in those magazines and give the editorial staff free stuff?

(not the belt) Sander

There are tires like that. The new Conti-Road-Attack-2 appears to be that sort of tire from the little I saw on it in the Euro Conti website. I suspect this may be the direction tires are headed.. a more controlled shape/hardness done by varying the carcass, not the compound.

Certainly a case where YMMV..

[thepeacebullgrunt]

I just called this website from which I usually ordered my PR2 asking for an alternative that square less and last at least as much than the PR2 and they recommended these tires ---> http://www.motorcycle-superstore.com/1/ ... Parts.aspx
then I did a search on this forum and couldn't find anything about these Angel Pirelli tires.

they are the only one listed in there interface for BMW/R1200R.

Anyone heard about those tires ?
I am style trying to find an alternative for PR2 and street riding. (Less "squarrish" and last as long or longer)

[hjsbmw]

I just called this website from which I usually ordered my PR2 asking for an alternative that square less and last at least as much than the PR2 and they recommended these tires ---> http://www.motorcycle-superstore.com/1/ ... Parts.aspx
then I did a search on this forum and couldn't find anything about these Angel Pirelli tires.

they are the only one listed in there interface for BMW/R1200R.

Anyone heard about those tires ?
I am style trying to find an alternative for PR2 and street riding. (Less "squarrish" and last as long or longer)

I never had those Pirelli Angels but have read a good test about them. In particular, I recall them as being rated above the competition (Metzeler Z6, Conti Road Attack, Michelin PR2, and a Dunlop and Bridgestone that I can't remember) in terms of longevity.

[thepeacebullgrunt]

That sound appealing hjsbmw even if pricier than the PR2
and I wonder the reason why they aren't anywhere on our Forum threads.

[deilenberger]

They look interesting - but if you read the comments - they were mostly from people with very few miles on the tires.. and people who were commenting on how great the new tire felt. Almost ALL "new" tires feel great when they're replacing old worn out tires.

http://www.motorcycle-superstore.com/1/ ... -Tire.aspx

One guy did complain about the mileage, and another guy said they were done at 6,000 miles. Doesn't sound much better then the Conti Sport Attack mileage.

I realized today - I now have 6,000 miles on this summer's set of PR2s - and aside from the odd ridges requiring some belt-sander time, they have plenty of tread left on them.