Kick-starting:

[MartyWadd]

I left my bike on and now the battery is almost completely drained. The ABS doesn't do that buzzing sound when I click the starter switch to the 'on' position nor does the fuel pump start it's little 'clickity-click'. I've tried kick-starting it a few times, going pretty fast. Is it possible that the battery is TOO drained to allow the engine to be kick-started? Also, what's the best technique to kick-start the motor? And lastly, Happy Holidays! I wish everyone on this board a great holiday season and may 2007 be a year full of fun, safe, and memorable motorcycling for each of you.
Marty

[GeoffJ]

Merry Christmas!

You'll have to charge or replace the battery, so the fuel pump can pressurize the EFI system.

[MartyWadd]

Thanks, G. I don't have a battery charger. Could I take it to a hardware store? Or maybe hook it up to a car battery?

[DJ Downunder]

When you say kick start..do you mean jump start or roll start..because out bikes don't have kick starters...and I'm glad about that..

Here's how I roll start mine...it should work for you.

DJ

I've roll started mine a few times just for the fun of it...here's what I do.

Second gear..third if you have a hill..clutch in..once up to speed..turn the key on..stand on the pegs..drop your arse on the seat and drop the clutch.

Timing is important or you'll just lock the rear wheel and skid to a stop..once it fires pull the clutch and blip the throttle...it works for me.

[MartyWadd]

yeah, i meant 'roll start'
thanks, dj

[socalrob]

If you have a 2004 or newer with the battery "lugs" I'd hook it to a car battery with the car turned off, let it set a few minutes to get a bit of life in the bike battery, and start the bike, then unhook the cables. I'd then buy a new bike battery, yours is toast if its sat more than a couple of hours in a drained state (at least that is my experience).

I think it says not to have a car running in the owner's manual.

If you have an older bike you may be screwed unless you buy a BMW batter charger that plugs into the acc. socket.

[MartyWadd]

thanks, guys.
i did hook it up to a car battery. then i tried to start it after a few mins. not enough juice. so i waited... 5 WHOLE minutes... still wouldn't start. so we started the car, and the bike started right up. disconnected after about 5 seconds.

that was yesterday. i've since ran my bike twice, and had no problems with starting it up. *fingers crossed*

[Spookymonster]

Unless you rode it for several (highway) hours, you'll be right back where you started if you let it sit for more than a day or two. I highly recommend a trickle charger to get it back up to spec without any further damage - the longer a battery sits around discharged, the smaller its max capacity gets.

Check out the Deltran Jr. on Ebay:
http://search.ebay.com/deltran-charger- ... QQsbrbinZt

[Boxer]

Spooky is not only spooky... he's also correct.

[CycleRob]

Another good battery murdered before it's time by stopping the engine with the sidestand or the killswitch. Ahhhemmm. Amazing to me, both habits naively endorsed by lawyered-up MSF instructors. Both habits also known to be absolute No-No's in the mechanics who ride common sense handbook. Don't look for it in bookstores . . . . just, like decades ago when your Dentist tells you that you should only floss the teeth you want to keep, it's things you'll hear or read about, remember and always follow as good advice. Or you won't.

I normally start the donor car after clamps are hooked up but BMW's specific warning may be to eliminate careless, chattering, chewing-around connections from generating powerful voltage spiking arcs while the car is running. The donor alternator is also raising the current and voltage to much more than needed to start the bike..That, or BMW is worried the bikes voltage regulator may power the stationary alternator rotor windings to overheating when the back voltage goes high. I wish they would give a technical reason and not just a "Don't eat the apple" admonition. It was never explained to Eve either, was it?

To jumpstart the bike, first remove the starter cover if you don't have the really excellent Beemer jumper lugs installed. For about $24 to BMW and a half hour between my basement and garage, I installed the positive lug on my 2002 R1150R. It allows easy charger or voltmeter hook-ups even if you never use it to get, or give, a jumpstart.
Ok, you've hooked it up to the car . . . . . Red to positive, Black to negative. Of course your helper at the other end of the jumpers is still making sure the highly powered Red & Black clamps are far apart. Red Positive to the upper copper coated bolt on the bike's starter solenoid, Black Negative cable on the chunky but solid crossover exhaust pipe clamp tabs is the last connection. I used to recommend the fat round allenhead tensioner bolt on rear of the cylinder barrel, but it is kinda smooth and the clamp could vibrate off when the OilHead motor starts. Try to make the last connection in one swift rattlesnake BITE of the clamp to minimize arcing/sparking as "chewing around with the clamp" generates multiple, traumatic voltage spikes. This applies to the first DISconnection's speed and "all-at-once" onhook too.
Start the car immediately after the clamps are connected. I'd let it run about 2 minutes before starting the bike so the donor puts back a big chunk of power. That way the bike's battery isn't too much of an electrical and torque drag load on the bike's easy to stall cold engine. Even if the alternator rotor windings are powered with 14.5V, they won't overheat in 2 or 5 minutes from their cold.beginning while the car charges the "not running" bike.
Put on your riding gear during those 2 minutes. The time it takes to do this will allow the dead battery to come back a little before the huge car battery starts the bike. During this time, the jumper cables determine how much current goes from car-2-bike. A cheap set of jumpers are always lightweight wires that have thinner, weaker clamps, flimsy crimp connections and they'll underperform too much when you need them most. Get a good $20+ set with 6 gage wires (or the lowest number available) and "men only" power-grip clamps.
Start the bike and keep it running with the throttle for the first few seconds if the fast idle lever on low idle sounds inadequate to keep it running. Disconnect the negative on the bike in one quick, no sputter motion, then it's positive clamp. KEEP THE TWO CLAMPS FAR APART UNTIL THE CAR'S POSITIVE JUMPER IS UNHOOKED!!!!!
If you're alone, seperate the still highly powered Red clamp from the Black one with a big rag at the bike. Then go to the car and disconnect the Red clamp first. After that all remaining clamps are safe and powerless.
You can futz with trying to reinstall the starter cover later. Take it, and the bolt, with you on either:
An 8+ hour, nonstop battery charging ride.
-or-
A place where there's an overnite charger that will not overcharge the battery before the next day. A 2 Amp charger for 8 hours is a good start for a dead battery prior to hooking up your battery Tender.

That was easy!

[chris]

Nice tip Rob, buy 'Mens jumper cables' Tim Taylor would be proud!
Mines's on trickle now, won't be fired up for another 10 days at least so I like to keep it ticking.

[Spookymonster]

Another good battery murdered before it's time by stopping the engine with the sidestand or the killswitch. Ahhhemmm. Amazing to me, both habits naively endorsed by lawyered-up MSF instructors.

Why not use the killswitch? Like you said, the MSF taught me 'switch, key, petcock'. I can understand not using the kickstand, if for no other reason than that kickstand switches are notorious for burning out, making this an unreliable, potentially hazardous, tactic. What are the benefits to using the key instead? Just curious.

[edit]
N/M.... I see this is another one of those holy war topics...

[DJ Downunder]

Maybe what CycleRob means by not using the key and using the kill switch or side stand instead is that once the engine is stopped you might forget to then turn the key off.

DJ

[CycleRob]

The key must be turned off when the engine stops. Why add an extra unnecessary step? Can't let go of the handlebar or front brake? Use the rear brake and your left foot on the ground. Other than a spill, where the bike was on it's side (and I STILL turned it off with the key) I have not yet encountered a situation where I had to, or needed to, turn the bike off with the kill switch. It is provided by regulation as an emergency engine cut-off switch if the throttle should stick open or (?) . . . . but because of involvement by lawyers, it is now incorrectly recomended by MSF instructors as THE way to turn off the bike. I say they are teaching novices a very costly, unnecessary, and very bad habit. It turns a 4 yr battery into a 2 yr battery, little by little, sometimes all at once. All in the name of MSF instructors not being sued because a fool allowed uneven ground and a bike still in gear to cause a spill.

I will not argue with KSA's (KillSwitchAdvocates) who defend their routine use of the KS (or SideStand Down In Gear) as the preferred, routine way to turn off their bike because you can't argue with a fool. They will one day be distracted and forget the key . . . . until it's too late. They lost. They pay $60+ and downtime hassles for being a fool and I know my past admonitions, many times in many posts, will pop into mind, along with words muttered under their breath.

I'm just trying to set the world straight, one bike at a time. Yes, the world. There's great bunch of real men riding around very very far away in sunny Aussieland and the often foggy UK. I want you all to win along with me, where a 4+ year old healthy battery is the norm, not the exception. If you still choose to enjoy being a KS or SSDIG advocate, I can only give you a mechanic's warning against doing it. Just be aware it has a price and annoying downtime.

[Ric]

Oh for heavens sakes...turn your bike off any way you want.
Just turn the key off in the end.

[mad1150]

Hey CycleRob,

I agree with you, and it's kind of weird but I always used to shut the Yamaha off with the kill switch, and then regularly for get to turn the key off, but when I got my R, I almost automatically started using the key. I think due to the fact that it's right there staring you in the face and my BMW salesman actually said it's the best way to shut it off using your reasoning.

One thing to remember though, you should still routinely test the kill and stand switches.

And one question. Have you ever heard of any cycle that requires it to be shut-off by the kill switch to reset a computer or electronics system? It seem like I read this in a manual somewhere. (Might have been an ATV)

[Sunbeemer]

And there have been a couple of posts where the (flimsy feeling) kill switches have died prematurely, so it is probably in our best interests to save them for when we might need them...That said, I think some of these reported failures may be attributable to overtightened wiring harnesses that abraded the kill switch's ignition wires...just a thought!

[Ric]

And there have been a couple of posts where the (flimsy feeling) kill switches have died prematurely, so it is probably in our best interests to save them for when we might need them...That said, I think some of these reported failures may be attributable to overtightened wiring harnesses that abraded the kill switch's ignition wires...just a thought!

WHAT !!! "Flimsy Feeling?"..You mean I'm going to pay a huge premium over say a Jap bike for a company's bike that can't even figure out a wiring harness and simple switch !!!

Somethings not right here. Of the 30 some-odd bikes I've owned in my life time, ranging from the 60's to 2001, I have never come upon a simple kill switch that was flimsy !

[yjleesvrr]

Maybe what CycleRob means by not using the key and using the kill switch or side stand instead is that once the engine is stopped you might forget to then turn the key off.

DJ

I think that's the key, no pun intended. I sometimes use the sidestand to kill the engine before turning off my key. Why? It's just convenient sometimes on hilly terrain. My Suzuki's battery lasted 4 years exactly, and my BMW's battery lasted 4.5 years. So as long as you turn that key to the off position within seconds of when you use the kickstand or kill switch, you should be okay. CycleRob sounds like he's made it his religion to inform us of better practices. I can appreciate that. But sometimes he has a way of coming across as a bit of a fanatic. Because I am not a mechanic, I'm a little less anal about this issue.

[Boxer]

I must confess. I'm one of those "sidestand" guys. Not because I prefer it to the key. But because more often than not, I pull up somewhere and put the sidestand down before thinking about what it will do in gear. Of course it shuts the bike off. Not an action to adopt as a habit.

Luckily, on the occasions that I have forgotten to turn off the key I have been blessed with people around me telling me my headlight was still burning, as I thoughtlessly walk away from the bike.