Advice for driving in snow and surviving the cold

[GypsyRR]

I posted this in another thread, but thought I would post it again in it's own thread because I need some sage advice and instruction.

I'm being sent on a job to Big Sky, Montana and staying in a little cabin in the mountains next Friday for 4.5 days and the weather forecast shows snow and highs in the 20's and lows around 10-12. I've never been in weather that cold and I've never driven in snow. I have slid on ice in Dallas a couple of times through intersections, but I don't want to do something like that again.

Any advice would be nice. I will be going into the back country mostly, so any advice for that kind of driving would be helpful. I'll have a snowmobile for part of my time there. I think they have rented me an SUV too if that makes much difference in technique for driving in snow.

I know about the importance of layers when dressing for the cold weather, but any other "survival" type hints would be helpful (and provide some survival hints for just in case I get stranded out in the cold and snow - because you know, things like that happen to me). Please realize, I have practically NO experience in snow or cold climates like that. Sheeeeeesh, I hope there is a heater in this cabin!!

Bears should be hibernating now, right?

[mad1150]

Gypsy, (copied from the other thread)

First of all, don't let 4WD, Anti-Lock brakes, ground clearence, or whatever else is on that SUV, lull you into any sence of security.
Just like on a motorcycle your head is the best tool you have.

The best advice is leave early, slow down, and try to go a steady speed (no cruise control). Here in IL when roads are snow packed and hazerdous, 40-50mph, about 25-40 if it's snowing or blowing or the road or weather conditions are more hazerdous, i.e. wind, curves and hills, etc.

Try to avoid sudden and hard braking, instead start decelerating way in advance of the stop, and use the breaks lightly.

(The words slow, steady, and smooth come to mind)

I'm sure others will chime in too, one good thing going for you is that you ride a motorcycle, so you already know about staying alert, and using good judgement.

Also, here is a link to the IL State Police Winter Driving tips:

http://www.isp.state.il.us/traffic/traffictips.cfm

[wncbmw]

You'll find you can drive faster on the snowmobile than the SUV in the snow!

mad1150 is right, in snow and ice there is no substitute for a lack of speed!

I lived in Montana two years with a 2wd Toyota station wagon and regular all-season tires. With a set of chains in the back for backcountry trips, I had no problems. Unlike down south, those guys know how to plow roads in a hurry!

Watch the black ice!

[GypsyRR]

I checked the road conditons, and it shows snow and ice. Checked another web site and it says "Chemical Wet" under the heading surface. I looked for a legend to tell me what "chemical wet" means, but couldn't find one. Not being familiar with snow or ice conditions, do any of you know what that means?

[toner87]

Sounds like they use a de-icing chemical, like other states use salt...

[GTR350cc]

Chemical wet = not frozen but slick (de-icers are slippery fluids).

[NoRRmad]

Dang, I posted this in the other thread. Well, I'll cut'n'paste it here.

Also, driving a snowmobile is no trivial exercise. You have to know what you're doing, (and dress for it.) I rented a snowmobile once (probably back before they got all the design elements straightened out,) and I spent much of the time off the thing trying to heft it back onto the trail. If you have trouble lifting your R onto the centerstand, I'd get a lesson or two, or give it a pass.

[GypsyRR]

..... driving a snowmobile is no trivial exercise. You have to know what you're doing, (and dress for it.) I rented a snowmobile once (probably back before they got all the design elements straightened out,) and I spent much of the time off the thing trying to heft it back onto the trail. If you have trouble lifting your R onto the centerstand, I'd get a lesson or two, or give it a pass.

Really? I'm planning on loading the thing down with equipment . I suppose I might have to rethink things if it is going to be that difficult to drive one.

[JCsman]

Getting stranded is a real threat, especially if you get off the main roads.

If you get stranded in the SUV and keep the motor running for warmth, keep a window cracked. And periodically check to assure drifting snow has not created a situation where CO is "trapped" under/in the vehicle.

Many years ago my agency lost a couple of guys to CO this way.

We also added some emergency packs to our vehicle trunks. Blankets, energy bars, etc.

You might add a couple of those chemical heating pads as well (I keep a couple in my bike bags to help keep core temp up if I find myself riding in colder than planned temps).

Whoops, I failed to read the link Mark provided. Good stuff there. Sorry for the repetition.

[GypsyRR]

Well, I'm glad I remembered my Chemistry class, Bill. For a moment I thought you were saying the snow would drift so high I could get Colorado trapped under the SUV.

Sufficiently scared, I finally got in touch with a my friend Curtis who lives in Montana. He is going to try to find a couple of different friends who could guide me one or two days into the back country either by truck or snowmobile before I try it alone. This is going to be interesting.

[darcym]

I don't drive in the snow much, but the best advice is slow and steady. If you have an SUV with 4WD use it if traction is at all iffy. If one wheel slips you have three more that can pull you out of trouble.

The other thing to be prepared for is the lack of visibility. Your lights reflect off of falling snow like they do off of fog, and you can't see beyond them. It can be really unnerving. Like at any minute you're going to drive off the side of the road. It pays to be particularly careful in unfamiliar territory. It's less scary if you're following someone and then you can see their red tail lights. Assuming they don't lose the road and drive off the side too. If it's bad you can also just look for lines at the center or sides of the road. Doesn't work if the road is snowed over though.

Even in the daytime the light is so flat and reflected off a world of white. Also you have to watch out for black ice -- in places where the snow has melted and then re-freezes overnight, it makes a clear sheet over the asphalt that looks just like a thin sheet of water over the asphalt, but that's ice and it can be slick. At places like bridges too -- the snow and ice melts on top but the water on the bridges freezes quicker than surrounding roads because of the cold air underneath the bridge.

[rph802]

Its been said before but bears repeating...

SLOW AND STEADY!!!!!

17 years of New England driving....all the high tech stuff doesnt replace a soft touch on the wheel and gas. No sudden accelerations or braking, nudge the wheel gently. 4WD can get you going from a stop but can also push you around on the road. Yes it provides extra drive but that can backfire on ya too. Find an BIG empty parking lot or field with nothing to hit and pla around. Do the "wrong" things and see what happens in a controlled enviroment.

+++ to the first aid kit, blanket(s) and energy bars. Hey hopefully you wont need em but better safe than sorry. Maybe add some water...it'll freeze on ya but stick it in the wheel well near the engine and it'll thaw in a hurry!!!
I'd even add;
Shovel
Sand (from DOT or town garage or bags from hardware store. Good for
weight over the wheels and/or if you get stuck. Packed snow turns
ice like under rubber very very quickly!!)
Kitty Litter (see Sand!!)
Salt (even comes in handy shaker bottles)
A good long ice scraper with a brush
Sunglasses (snow glare is a MAJOR PITA!!!)
Flares (signal or fire making)
Tent/low low temp sleeping bag
++ for those little chemical heating pads. Great for skiing too!!
Cell and/or CB (prob not a lot of signal but never know)

Watch those snowmobiles. They look easy but can turn squirrley on you in a flash and are capable of some damn impressive speed. Very useful way out in the woods and the trails are sometimes better groomed than the roads. Take it easy and put your bikes skills to use. SOME of the same principles apply.

Good luck out there and dont forget to enjoy some of that scenery while you're there!!!

Craig

[mad1150]

Gypsy,

I forgot to end my advice post properly yesterday!

If you read, take some good books with you, in case your snowed in. I just read Ghostrider by Neil Peart (drummer for R&R Group - RUSH). He rode a GS 1150 from Canada to Alaska, then down through the US to Mexico and Belize. Great read, a little sad and it gets a little slow in the middle, but his writing is so descriptive, you just want to keep riding along with him.

Have a fun and safe trip, enjoy the sceney, and take plenty of pics to share with us!

[taosports]

Great info from everyone, so this is all I can add.

I know it may be tempting, but do not do this :

[GTR350cc]

"I triple dog dare ya!"

[mad1150]

...and don't forget: "Don't eat the yellow snow"

[rph802]

Gypsy,

I forgot to end my advice post properly yesterday!

If you read, take some good books with you, in case your snowed in. I just read Ghostrider by Neil Peart (drummer for R&R Group - RUSH). He rode a GS 1150 from Canada to Alaska, then down through the US to Mexico and Belize. Great read, a little sad and it gets a little slow in the middle, but his writing is so descriptive, you just want to keep riding along with him.

Have a fun and safe trip, enjoy the sceney, and take plenty of pics to share with us!

I'll second that recommendation!!! Well written book that i usually read twice a year. Not an upbeat read but a tale well told. Peart also has a new one called Roadshow covering a US and Europe tour again on a bike. Little more about the tour than the riding but still quite a bit of road tales.

Craig

[GypsyRR]

Thanks for the tip on a good read. I don't think I'll have time to read while I'm working up there if everything goes right. However just in case things don't go well, I'll go ahead and buy the book and carry it with me for that time when I slide off the road because of black ice and am stuck for a few hours in a snowstorm, or when I've lost my way on a trail after thinking I could handle a snowmobile like a motorcycle, or for the long wait in the airport on Tuesday because I'm snowed in and can't get home.



After all the dangers ya'll listed, I think I will try to get internet at least once or twice just to say I'm still alive and doing well and staying warm - thanks to all your clear warnings and good advice.

[TonyT607]

Good luck Gypsy, be safe, and make sure you check in when you get back.

And remember, this time of year you're supposed to head hundreds of miles SOUTH, not north...... ok ?

[Boxer]

Don't drive that snowmobile over any large empty flat areas. You may find yourself in a lake with too thin ice. Picture that scene.

I, like you, have absolutely no experience in the north country, but that has always been fodder for nightmares for me. I must have seen it in a movie once or twice.