Oil and the use of Mobil 1

Post by **scottybooj** » Tue Jun 06, 2006 11:38 pm

I know many like to use Mobil 1...DJ likes the Extended Performance I believe.

I called up Mobil and they said that they can't recommend their Mobil 1 oils be used for cycles except for their two cycle versions. (they are more expensive...hmmm)

The man stated that due to stricter EPA regulations on cars, their oils have had to change their phosphorous and other lubricating ingredient levels. Since the Mobil 1 range is designed for auto use, they have been lowered over the years.

He then said that since the other oils are designed for motorcycles, they've retained the higher lubricant levels and are more suited for out bikes. The 'V-twin' oil is what they recommend for our bike due to it being air/oil cooled; it apparently is designed for higher operating temps.

just a little FYI.

Post by **Rootin55** » Wed Jun 07, 2006 4:47 am

[img][img]http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y77/Rootin55/New_5.jpg[/img][/img]

beemerphile · Post by **beemerphile** » Wed Jun 07, 2006 6:23 am

The Mobil tech people probably either:

1) Do not recognize that the BMW does not share its engine lubricant with the transmission and is built no differently than a Volkswagen beetle or Porsche 911. Probably runs cooler than either of these as well.

2) Have been told by the marketers to hype the expensive M/C specific oil.

Lee

(Anyway you can't use V-Twin oil in a flat twin because the synthetic oil molecules have been programmed by Mobil to turn after they come out of the first cyclinder so they will miss the second cylinder of the BMW and just bang up against the back wall of the motor.)

Post by **rdsmith3** » Wed Jun 07, 2006 7:44 am

Oil seems to be debated endlessly on the RT forums. See this, for example:
http://bmwsporttouring.com/ubbthreads/s ... &fpart=all

The consensus, by people more knowledgable than I, is that Mobil 1 for cars is just fine to use in the boxer engine. I plan to switch to synthetic at my next oil change.

Post by **DJ Downunder** » Wed Jun 07, 2006 9:15 am

I called up Mobil and they said that they can't recommend their Mobil 1 oils be used for cycles

The reason he said that is because it's not good for motorcycles...Japanese motorcycles...motorcycles that have wet clutches and very high revs.

The motorcycle specific oils have friction modifiers for wet clutches and anti foaming agents for very high rpm's.

Our engine is more like a car engine and Mobil 1 is perfect IMHO.

DJ

Panzerleder · Post by **Panzerleder** » Tue Jul 11, 2006 6:34 pm

I used Mobil 1 in my K100 ... until I had problems with the starter clutch freewheeling. I asked the local ace mechanic about it and the first thing he asked was what kind of oil I was using. When I told him, he said DON'T. I switched to a motorcycle-specific oil and had no more problems with the starter clutch. The difference in cost is really minimal and when you're spending thousands on the bike and more thousands on mods, why scrimp on its life blood?

Post by **Acpantera** » Tue Jul 11, 2006 7:06 pm

Bell housings on boxers and older k bikes are dry ........no engine oil contact at all to the clutch or starter. You can't buy a better oil package than mobil 1.

Post by **scottybooj** » Tue Jul 11, 2006 8:38 pm

I know we have dry clutches, AND the tech knew it too. He just said that over the years they've lowered certain lubricant levels to match EPA guidelines. They haven't had to do it for bike oils, that's why he recommended the V-twin oil. The other oil is for high reving bikes like the japs.

Sunbeemer · Post by **Sunbeemer** » Tue Jul 11, 2006 9:43 pm

I'm not an avid poster so please bear with me. My 02 RR says to not use any oil with an SAE rating HIGHER than (after) SG because (I read on a website) the EPA required the reduction of Phosphorous to meet emission control regs, and the later oils (what are they up to now, SM?) do not contain enough phosphorous to meet BMW engine operating requirements (although I don't know what phosphorous does for an engine). Initially, the EPA called for the P reduction in 10W-30 weights only, but it is believed that other weights have been reduced to keep the additive packages uniform (within brands) as a cost saving measure. Wish I could find the site again where several brands of synthtic and no-synthetic oils were analyzed, inc. BMW oils.
BTW, I have heard from old hands that fully synthetic oil will eventually cause the rear main seal to fail, and they recommend to me to use a mixture of synthetic and non-synthetic, (a "blend") to derive the benefits of both. Does this make sense?

Panzerleder · Post by **Panzerleder** » Tue Jul 11, 2006 10:58 pm

The answer to Sunbeemer's question, in a word, is no. That is one of the main myths surrounding synthetic oil. You can find this and other myths debunked on AMSOIL's very interesting web site, including detailed comparisons with other oils.

http://www.performanceoiltechnology.com ... e=overture

As for the sprag cluth on early K-bikes, here is a tech piece on it from K-bike tech pages. It pretty accurately describes the problem I was having. The solution just involved a slightly different remedy -- in my case, switching oils.

Early K100 Sprag Clutch Cleanup
By Don Eilenberger
September 2000

The Finest Year ('85) and earlier K100 has the first design sprag clutch - and it's problematical if the technique I describe will help - but easy and cheap to try. It's also possible that your sprag clutch has accumulated moisture causing rust of the components (one of the problems with short winter rides) - and in this case disassembly is probably the only answer. (BMW changed the design in early '85 due to exactly this problem - the new design helped but did not entirely 'cure' the problem - it still occurs once in a while on K engines).

OK - the process I've used with success (and it has worked about 60% of the time for other people - no guarantees)

Go to a local auto parts store and look for an oil additive which describes itself as a 'detergent' - we do NOT want any oil thickeners (like STP) - we want something that says "Cleans rings, hydraulic lifters, etc.." "safe to use in your oil" - we are not looking for an engine 'flush' - we're looking for a very specific oil detergent additive.

I personally have had very good luck through the years with a product called CD-2 Oil Detergent. Paul Glaves and others have used a product called Rislone with success.

With CD-2, (make sure it is the 'detergent') - I added 1/2 a can to a fresh change of oil - and then ran it for 500 miles and then changed the oil. Any of the detergent additives tend to dilute the oil, so I don't like to make it part of the bikes regular diet. With CD-2, you could add it even if you were full up on oil - the can isn't very large. Rislone comes in a quart, so adding even 1/2 of it might require lowering your oil level somehow.

The brand of oil you use may also have some effect on this behavior.. I find I've had good results with Castrol RX-Super 15-40 fleet oil.. I'm sure that any quality oil will help avoid the problem, as will longer rides in the winter to allow the oil to come up to temperature and burn off moisture.

All contents Copyright Ã‚Â© 1995 - 2006 Internet BMW Riders & the original author(s)

K-Bike Tech Pages

Maintainer: Tom Coradeschi WWW - email
Last Update: 21 March 2002

beemerphile · Post by **beemerphile** » Wed Jul 12, 2006 6:54 am

Grab the popcorn and enjoy the show. On one side we have the people who drank the Marketing Kool-Aid and on the other side the ones who declined. "V-twin" oil would assume that the oil cared which way the pistons were angled. Won't the oil go the wrong direction in a flat twin? If you use high speed Japanese oil can you no longer drive slowly? They have special oil for pick-up trucks and 4WD's too. I'd pay more to know that my truck wasn't getting a sissy 2WD oil.

I know of a BMW with 280,000 miles on it that has only used standard Castrol dinosaur-based 20-50 automobile oil. I have told it's owner that he is risking the motor but he is too stupid to listen.

Cheers - Lee

Sunbeemer · Post by **Sunbeemer** » Wed Jul 12, 2006 12:47 pm

Thanks for the link to Amsoils website Panserledr. You're right, it is interesting and chock full of good info, more than I have time to read right now, but will peruse it more later.

BTW, I've been using Mobil 1 in my Chevy 350cid for for 12 years ~100,000 miles (it now shows 112,000 because I "broke" it in on dino oil), and i doesn't use or loose any between 5000 mile oil changes. Runs like new in fact, and so I'm a believer in syn-oils.

Also, I found the link to Jeff DiCarlo's article (I mentioned previously)called "Is This the Right Oil for my Bike?" http://www.ibmwr.org/otech/oilreport.html
It was written in 1999 and has been referred to often, so you've probably seen it, but it was interesting and seemed reliable.

Post by **Acpantera** » Wed Jul 12, 2006 2:04 pm

Think of the Boxer engine as a 180deg v twin

Panzerleder · Post by **Panzerleder** » Wed Jul 12, 2006 4:13 pm

I didn't mean to provke an argument over motorcycle vs automotive oils. As with most things, it is primarily an individual decision based on all kinds of parameters. A few years ago, Sport Rider did a fairly comprehensive analysis of motorcycle and automotive oils. They concluded that a motorcycle-specific oil was definitely different in composition than its automotive equivalent. Whether that means better is really something only the consumer can answer. Here's their write-up:

http://www.sportrider.com/tech/146_0310_oil/

jon pierce · Post by **jon pierce** » Wed Jul 12, 2006 6:25 pm

Folks, we are getting our knickers in a twist for no real reason other than we like it!!

We do not need expensive, special, high performance oils - unless YOU gain satisfaction from buying and using them. If so, go for it, fill your boots, knock yourself out, lap it up!

BMW sell their own oil for bikes, in a BMW branded container, available from any BMW dealer, as recommended by BMW for almost no money. You can buy a case of 12Qts for less than $45 from BMW in the US - that is as cheap as chips!

Use this oil and ride your bike with a big silly grin on your face and find something else to worry about................maybe the weather, Iraq, the meaning of life .

Incidently, the rest of the World (not the US) change oil in cars every 20,000+ miles these days and use synthetic oil. This is to reduce the amount of time your car is away for service). I worked in the BMW car world in Europe and would see cars with 300,000 miles+ - no problems with the motors. We would sometimes see cars with lazy owners that had gone 30,000 miles between oil cjanges - no problem.

The US seems to be brainwashed into changing the oil every 3,000 miles in their vehicles, even when using expensive synthetic oil. If your motor is going to die prematurely it is usually because there was a (unusual) fault with it's manufacture - no oil in the World is going to change the outcome.

Here's a thought for the day......................the news each day is always the same, it is only the names and dates that change!