thoughts about new ST

[2ndM3]

Last Saturday at the open house at our local dealer I test rode the new ST. I really loved it. It just felt so right to me. Does any of you test rode one? What are your impressions? I am in no way into replacing my Rockster, but can replace it with the other bike I have. First when I looked at it I did not like the new styling but when I actually rode it I liked everything....

I think they're in soft demand since they have the RT which is much more popular.

Thoughts???

[BobFV1]

I think they're in soft demand since they have the RT which is much more popular.

And the old RT, which is much better looking

[Deans BMW]

Lets see, the ST, I picked up mine March 29th, now approaching 17,000 miles. The bike is truly outstanding, fast excellent handling, and can easily ride with the fastest bikes out there with the exception of the out and out crotch rockets. Several members of the board have seen mine.

[dallara]

I've seen the "Exxon Valdez"...

Uh, oh... I mean Dean's R-1200-ST...

Here's a picture of it at our recent Big Bend trip:



An EPA "Black Helicopter" descended upon us immediately after this was taken and said Dean's oil spill was threatening the near extinct Big Bend desert newt...

Dean schmoozed them well, and convinced them the R-1200-ST was not only a great bike, but could repair itself in minutes and clean up the oil spill... Only thing was, when Dean high-tailed out of Alpine the next morning the spill was still there. Word is that the EPA has Dean and his ST on their Ten Most Wanted List...

Here's a pic of Dean fleeing the scene of the crime...



Just kidding... Dean's ST is pretty nice sled... He actually let me ride it. Nice motor, but much more of a high-RPM delivery than an R-1150-R, which feels like it pulls better down low. Ask Dean aboout the 5th gear roll-on - ST vs. R-1150-R... Was interesting. Engine wasn't as smooth as I expected, but nice. Vibes about the same as an R... More "revvy" and sporty feeling, but not as tractable to me as the R-1150-R.

Chassis feels *LIGHT*, and more flickable... Seating position is a bit too "sportbike" for my now mature tastes, but the windscreen works remarkably well.

Only truly bad thing for me... Those damnable BMW brake servos!!!

I know Dean says they aren't as bad as previous generations, but they still feel wooden and disconnected to me. No brake "feel" at all. Sorry, but I just can't get to where I like that.

Just my two german marks... of course. YMMV.

Cheers!

Dallara

[2ndM3]

I've seen the "Exxon Valdez"...

Uh, oh... I mean Dean's R-1200-ST...

Here's a picture of it at our recent Big Bend trip:



An EPA "Black Helicopter" descended upon us immediately after this was taken and said Dean's oil spill was threatening the near extinct Big Bend desert newt...

Dean schmoozed them well, and convinced them the R-1200-ST was not only a great bike, but could repair itself in minutes and clean up the oil spill... Only thing was, when Dean high-tailed out of Alpine the next morning the spill was still there. Word is that the EPA has Dean and his ST on their Ten Most Wanted List...

Here's a pic of Dean fleeing the scene of the crime...



Just kidding... Dean's ST is pretty nice sled... He actually let me ride it. Nice motor, but much more of a high-RPM delivery than an R-1150-R, which feels like it pulls better down low. Ask Dean aboout the 5th gear roll-on - ST vs. R-1150-R... Was interesting. Engine wasn't as smooth as I expected, but nice. Vibes about the same as an R... More "revvy" and sporty feeling, but not as tractable to me as the R-1150-R.

Chassis feels *LIGHT*, and more flickable... Seating position is a bit too "sportbike" for my now mature tastes, but the windscreen works remarkably well.

Only truly bad thing for me... Those damnable BMW brake servos!!!

I know Dean says they aren't as bad as previous generations, but they still feel wooden and disconnected to me. No brake "feel" at all. Sorry, but I just can't get to where I like that.

Just my two german marks... of course. YMMV.

Cheers!

Dallara

This is exactly how I felt. The motor felt more sportier. Overall I think it's an excellent bike. I hope they will start discouning the 05s. I think when people would want the real touring bike they would go for the RT. And... for more sportier then you'd go for the K. This one is stuck right in between. That explains why I loved it and why it's in soft demand as well. But it's just my two pennies.

Thanks for your opinions anyway.

[Deans BMW]

2ndM3, I have sent you a PM.

[Bones]

I test rode the ST. Clearly, 20 minutes on it doesn't compare to Dean's 17K. In fact,given that mileage in that short a period of time, I suspect Dean sleeps with his, takes it into the shower with him and rides it around inside his house, too. 17K already?

My impressions were:
1. Compared to the 1150R engine, the ST engine ran smoother. That is just a characteristic of the 1200 engine in the whole series.
2. Reved higher? Yes. They all do that. All the 1200's.
3. Low down pull: Dallara is correct that the very very low rpm pull feels stronger on the 1150R, as the 1200's "like" to be run at slightly higher rpms, across the board. I recall my 1150R's sweet spot being at about 3200-3500 rpms. Roll on from there and it pulled like a maniac, but it would also pull very hard from 2800. The 1200 engines pull better than an inline 4 will at 2800 rpms, but they really don't feel right unless you start throttle roll on at 3Kor even better at 3500.. BUT, the linear pull from there is fantastic AND (here is where the 1200 kicks A$$) it keeps pulling very strong and smooth right up to redline. It REALLY pulls at 5500 up to 7500, where is where I found the 1150R to flatten and drop off in pulling power. That is from my buttocks dyno, but you asked..... Let's face it, Dallara doesn't like anything that doesn't pull from 12 rpms. Hey, Dallara, I see you on a Harley Dyna Low Rider pretty soon!
4. The ST ergos and handling felt VERY similar to the newer Honda VFR's. Semi sporty, more sport touring. More comfortable than I thought it would be. Turn stability was fantatstic. It tracked through beautifully. If you modulate throttle in a turn with the bike leaned, no problem. It does not tend to stand up or run out wideif you add throttle. NOW, here is where I would get in trouble with Deano. IF you are looking for a sport tourer with a lot of stability, the VFR is truly a fantastic bike, has a V4 engine which is just a magical beast and it SOUNDS unbelievable if you put an after market slip on onboard. The best sounding bike on the planet. And a VFR is probably 30% less $$$ than the ST. The ergos are very very similar and the handling characteristics are very similar, as well. And if you insist on having ABS, I think the Honda ABS is much more transparent and doesn't put those blasted servos on board. BUT, if you feel visceral love for the boxer engine (guilty as charged, here) then the ST can give you the boxer and VFR characteristics in a sweet package.
5. Totally subjective: I liked the dingle layout and visuals. I think all of the new R series bikes look only OK in photos, but in person, they look MUCH better. I think the ST is a beautiful bike. It is very different looking than anything out there.

My ride was for about 20 minutes and was on regular two lane country roads. Nothing too twisty, but there were some twisty sections. I found the clutch and tranny to be very smooth and a great improvement over the 1150 series. It still feels very "beefy" in terms of being solid, but creamy smooth now in gear shifting. No toe/foot pain induced like the 1150 series.No missed shifts, no false neutrals. Positive engagement every time without having to bruise your forefoot. This is a characteristic of the new 1200 series. The brakes.....well, you know I feel about the servos. I agree with Dean that they are miles better than the 1150 version. But I agree with Dallara that they still rob front end feel a lot. The new ones are much less grabby based on my short ride. I still don't trust the computer issues with the whole BMW servo concept for this. But I don't think you can get an ST without them. The GS can be had without the servos, and that is what I got.

Hope that info helps a bit. A test ride will answer your gut feeling meter pretty quickly.

Bones

[dallara]

Can't find fault with a thing Bones said really...

He hits all the nails squarely on the head, IMHO... Well, except for the following:

I think the ST is a beautiful bike. It is very different looking than anything out there.

Bones must have been a "Battlestar Galatica" fan when he was a kid...

Yep, the ST is "different looking", for sure... But so is a duckbill platypus... We used to say the duckbill platypus was irrefutable evidence that God had a sense of humor!

Oh, and Bones... couple of other things...

You said:

Let's face it, Dallara doesn't like anything that doesn't pull from 12 rpms.

You *BETCHA'*!!! Shouldn't a bike pull from the basement to the attic??? Flat, linear torque curves do more to help rideability (and lap times, if you're on the racetrack...) and confidence that probably any other single engine characteristic. Revs are fun, but not all that productive in the grand scheme of things...

But here's where I wanna' throw *ROCKS* at ol' Bones...

Hey, Dallara, I see you on a Harley Dyna Low Rider pretty soon!

ARRRRRRRRRGH!

No way, Skeleton Breath!

I'll have one of those about the same time you have a V-Rod for a track bike!

I would have a BMW with double servos and multiple CANBUS's before that happens!

Now, a KTM 950 Supermoto... Or a new Kenny Dreer 952 Norton...

That's another story...

Cheers!

Dallara

[Bones]

I have to revise my statement.
I think Dallara prefers a bike that starts to pull hard BEFORE the engine is even running. I have heard rumor that he has his 1150R tuned so that it actually makes 80 lb ft of torque while in the garage, engine off and with the battery charger on. Gotta admire that!

Can't argue with these things.

I have a friend who is a great rider. He just doesn't feel at home unless it is on an inline 4, with all of its electric engine feel (or lack thereof). I love my flat twin. No matter what I own or ride, a flat twin just feels so "right" to me. When we switch bikes he always gives me back my keys and with a BIG smile on his face says "just don't know why anyone would want to own one of these." I just laugh and say "so we can let our friends ride them and understand what real fun is all about."


There is a trade off for "smoothness" and much of it has to do with "character." Fortunately, one thing BMW did right is KEEP the essential quality of vibration, rumble, whatever you want to call it, even with the counterbalancer in the new 1200 series. If it got too smooth, it just wouldn't be a boxer engine.

Re the visuals....I am old enough that I have to admit never having watched Battlestar Gallactica, but I get the idea. Indeed, the new BMW esthetic is "angular." But I think the ST looks kind of cool in its uniqueness. Then again, I think the GS bikes are attractive in their own way, which goes to show you that, if nothing else, I may be odd.

Finally, there is something about an inline 4 engine at 15,500 rpms and that insane SCREEEEAM, that is just hair rasiningly satisfying. No question that those power characteristics are more difficult to use and dangerous to use improperly, but man, that sound!!!

One thing I didn't mention is that I found the ST handling to be quite different than any other BMW's I have ridden, including the 1200 series bikes and the RT, GS, 1150R, 1100R, etc. It feels much more like the VFR in handling.

Gotta go work on the Vrod to get it ready for track days......

Bones

[tomski12]

Just picked up my ST today. Gotta great deal on it b/c it was a demo. Very impressed so far. My last bike was an 1150GS, so this feels much lighter and quicker. There is more of a "hole" at lower rpm's than I am accustomed. Found myself in lower gears than with either of my 1150's. Frankly, I was waiting for the R1200R, but I figured I'd be waiting a long time. I was also considering 12GS, but this deal was too good to pass up. I think it looks good. Its the silver/blue combo.

[Bry]

The ST? Sold my Rockster for it... hell of weapon, my all time favorite bike was the K12RS, this thing has the similar sit in feel, the weather protections great and it's way lighter!

Spent a thousand K's on it this weekend going to a hillclimb event, got off it with out feeling that bad at all!

Saw the one of the earlier BMW prototypes on the sid eof the road!

http://members.iinet.net.au/~bryone/P1010022.JPG

The beast!
http://members.iinet.net.au/~bryone/P1010125.JPG

Talk about a game classic rider!

http://members.iinet.net.au/~bryone/P1010046.JPG


Funny thing was everyone who came and asked *there was a lot... all said it looks great in the flesh!



Bry