fwiw I was talking to a bike salesman who told me that as long as the balls of your feet can touch the ground that the bike isn't too tall for you, personally I'm more comfortable having my feet lay flat but with me on the r1150r it's barely.
one other thing I discovered during my pre-ride figure 8s and circles that was glossed over in the msf class was that when doing slow tight turns the bike can still lean into the turn some but the body shouldn't lean with the bike but actually it helps if I lean away from the direction of the bikes' lean.
question is, at roughly what speed should I start leaning with the bike instead of away from it?
Bike size and tight turns
Moderator: Moderators
Bike size and tight turns
2004 R1150r Non-ABS
If each of us were to get one other person on a bike, we'd double our presence
If each of us were to get one other person on a bike, we'd double our presence
Re: Bike size and tight turns
the same speed that the rotation of the wheels starts to balance the bike. anything faster than parking lot speed. 10-15mph? you have to decide that for yourself.
you ever jump off a bicycle when you were a kid and see how far it would go on its own? or roll a tire? it will go until it loses centrifugal force.
here some slow speed you salesman was talking about. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=digSeQLDvoo
In that case, t would be VERY BAD for him to lean INTO the turn, because the tires arent creating any balance from rotation, and it would fall over easier. At HIGH speed this is opposite. the wheels are turning SO fast, you have to overcome the centrifugal force thats trying to KEEP them in motion. So, you COUNTER steer to make the bike lean, then steer into turn. that one messed with me when I was learning and saw a super slow mo vid of a TT racer at 170mph turning the wrong direction!
it was a subconscious thing for me until that moment.
PLENTY of vids out there.
you ever jump off a bicycle when you were a kid and see how far it would go on its own? or roll a tire? it will go until it loses centrifugal force.
here some slow speed you salesman was talking about. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=digSeQLDvoo
In that case, t would be VERY BAD for him to lean INTO the turn, because the tires arent creating any balance from rotation, and it would fall over easier. At HIGH speed this is opposite. the wheels are turning SO fast, you have to overcome the centrifugal force thats trying to KEEP them in motion. So, you COUNTER steer to make the bike lean, then steer into turn. that one messed with me when I was learning and saw a super slow mo vid of a TT racer at 170mph turning the wrong direction!
it was a subconscious thing for me until that moment.PLENTY of vids out there.
2002 R1150R. Helmets save more lives than loud pipes.
Re: Bike size and tight turns
I think feeling it out makes most sense and I'm getting more comfortable with each ride.
I think my 10 clockwise circles, 10 counterclockwise circles, and 10 figure 8s in the nearby park before each ride is helping
I think my 10 clockwise circles, 10 counterclockwise circles, and 10 figure 8s in the nearby park before each ride is helping
2004 R1150r Non-ABS
If each of us were to get one other person on a bike, we'd double our presence
If each of us were to get one other person on a bike, we'd double our presence
Re: Bike size and tight turns
MThomas wrote:I think feeling it out makes most sense and I'm getting more comfortable with each ride.
I think my 10 clockwise circles, 10 counterclockwise circles, and 10 figure 8s in the nearby park before each ride is helping
Curious, did you have to do the cone slalom to get your license? funny thing, I learned on a HUGE bike, i had gotten pretty good or so I thought, then I bought a tiny one a few years later after not riding a bit.. Yamaha 650v star. Took it for granted I guess, went to take my test with it, and failed the slow cone slalom. I over rode the last one, I had no rhythm. She passed me though, she new it was a brand new bike and I aced the rest..
So yes, you are correct, practice is key.
you'll find the spot where control changes, and the bike holds itself up. side note: rode this morning, it was glorious. Prime motorcycling season (fall) is near.
2002 R1150R. Helmets save more lives than loud pipes.
Re: Bike size and tight turns
I had to cone slalom, wasn't bad, brake in a certian distance, wasn't bad, and also tight U-turn, which I did horrible on. Probably the reason I do those circles and figure 8's before riding since I know it's a weak spot
2004 R1150r Non-ABS
If each of us were to get one other person on a bike, we'd double our presence
If each of us were to get one other person on a bike, we'd double our presence
Re: Bike size and tight turns
Did another series of tight turns today.
My summary would be "the more you turn the handlebar, the more you lean away from the turn"
My summary would be "the more you turn the handlebar, the more you lean away from the turn"
2004 R1150r Non-ABS
If each of us were to get one other person on a bike, we'd double our presence
If each of us were to get one other person on a bike, we'd double our presence
Re: Bike size and tight turns
Keep practicing those close quarter manuevers until you can pull a 180 in the width of two car parking spaces, then you'll be able to execute a U-turn in most any road. Remember to keep your head up and your eyes level, and don't look down at the ground in front of you if you don't want your ass to kiss that spot! 
.
At slow speeds (<10mph) you can enhance heeling by hiking out which allows leaning the bike harder over and also reduces the effective circumference of the tires allowing smaller turning radii.
At higher speeds you'll lean with the bike to counteract the gyroscopic stabilizing forces of the spinning wheels and counteract centripetal forces on your body.
You can take tighter corners at higher speeds if you shift your butt and torso to the inside of the curve (hang off) to straighten a heeling bike and reduce the centripetal force which, along with providing better tire contact patches to the road surface, helps maximize traction. You only get so much of that, so spend it wisely!
BTW, this is really well explained in David Hough's book, Proficient Motorcycling along with an excellent explanation of countersteering
Hang in there! You'll get it. It takes lots of practice, and you really never stop learning how to ride better, which is what keeps me interested.
.At slow speeds (<10mph) you can enhance heeling by hiking out which allows leaning the bike harder over and also reduces the effective circumference of the tires allowing smaller turning radii.
At higher speeds you'll lean with the bike to counteract the gyroscopic stabilizing forces of the spinning wheels and counteract centripetal forces on your body.
You can take tighter corners at higher speeds if you shift your butt and torso to the inside of the curve (hang off) to straighten a heeling bike and reduce the centripetal force which, along with providing better tire contact patches to the road surface, helps maximize traction. You only get so much of that, so spend it wisely!
BTW, this is really well explained in David Hough's book, Proficient Motorcycling along with an excellent explanation of countersteering
Hang in there! You'll get it. It takes lots of practice, and you really never stop learning how to ride better, which is what keeps me interested.
Rich
ADIOS!
ADIOS!
Re: Bike size and tight turns
I found leaning away from the turn is also good when making 90 degree turns whether from a complete stop, e.g. turning onto a road from a stoplight/stop sign, or in motion, e.g. turning into a lot a slow speed
2004 R1150r Non-ABS
If each of us were to get one other person on a bike, we'd double our presence
If each of us were to get one other person on a bike, we'd double our presence