WHY DOES ABS MATTER ?

[Rocket]

Interested in members views and experience with the ABS.

It's a strange one this - nice to have that peace of mind (having seen the promotional videos) , but I wouldn't lose any sleep if it wasn't there. Survived 30 years of biking without it, so not that big a deal IMHO. Once you have a thing though, its hard to give it up, even if you've never used it. Seems a little irrational so would like to hear some other views.

[mogu83]

I survived almost 50 years of riding without it - BUT I'm sure it saved me a trip to the hospital once and maybe one other time. As you get older things start to not work like they used to (I'm speaking for myself) and I'll use whatever it takes to keep me in the saddle for as long as I can.

To me that includes these new fangled devices: hydraulic disk brakes, halogen lights, LED auxiliary taillights, tubeless tires, fuel injection, electronic ignition, alternators,electric starters, real shocks,GPS,directional signals,full coverage helmets, jacket and pants with body armor and heated clothing. ABS is just another addition to a long list.

Things have changed since that 17 year old kid with no helmet,sunglasses,T-shirt (white), jeans and sneakers mounted on a BSA B33.

NOT MINE BUT CLOSE:

[Michael Hart]

couldn't have said it better Harry, it saved my butt about a month ago.
Mike

[Kieran R1200R]

I'll never forget this one because it was on my birthday in 2005.
A group of us, 9 bikes in total, 5 with pillions wore out for a good days ride.
The day was perfect, we put on about 350km that day.
We met for breakfast, had lunch out and was heading home.
We decicded to take this very scenic route home up this very twisty mountain road.
The pace started to pick up.
There was a lead bike a honda repsol 1000cc in front of me brand new.
There was me on my 2004 R1100S with ABS and power assited brakes!!
Behind me was a 2001 GPZ Kawa and the rest of the field behind him.
About 2 km's into the ride the first bike Honda was spooked at a car suddenly appearing around a corner and went for his front brake.
What happened next was truly amasing.
The road had a lot of undulation in it so I think that just as he applied this brake his front tyre lost contact with the road causing his front wheel to lock up.
He came down, and his bike slid on and hit the car.
The car driver just picked the car up 1 hour before, brand new and saw the bike ridder and slowed, that what saved his life.
The bike hit the car and bounced back in front of me, I was still doing 80kms at this stage.
The guy behind me GPZ saw what was happening and went for brakes, locked the front up and came down, he and this pillion.
By this time the road in front of me was completely blocked.
I managed to brake and get completely around the corner, without locking any wheels up only to hit the bike that had bounced off the car and landed dirrectly in front of me.
Causing us to come down.
I am absolutely canvinced that if we did not have ABS I would have lost the front TOO!!!
The end result was 5 people taken to hospital, my pillion included which was my wife.
After that day I have made sure every bike I have had has ABS.
The R1200R I have now has the best ABS so far as it is nowhere near as savage as it use to be.
My 2cents worth!

[deilenberger]

If you only need it once - it's a bargain.

And there are no deer in the UK? The USA is overrun with them, and they stand on the side of the road, whispering to each other "I think I see a motorcycle.. get ready.."

[Rocket]

If you only need it once - it's a bargain.

And there are no deer in the UK? The USA is overrun with them, and they stand on the side of the road, whispering to each other "I think I see a motorcycle.. get ready.."

Saw a few in Scotland , in a field behind a wall not taking much interest in me. Probably whispering to each other , look, a biker,...Oh don't bother,... he's got ABS

[Rocket]

If you only need it once - it's a bargain.

And there are no deer in the UK? The USA is overrun with them, and they stand on the side of the road, whispering to each other "I think I see a motorcycle.. get ready.."

Lol. Saw a few in Scotland , in a field behind a wall not taking much interest in me. Probably whispering to each other , look, a biker,...Oh don't bother,... he's got ABS

[Rocket]

To me that includes these new fangled devices: hydraulic disk brakes, halogen lights, LED auxiliary taillights, tubeless tires, fuel injection, electronic ignition, alternators,electric starters, real shocks,GPS,directional signals,full coverage helmets, jacket and pants with body armor and heated clothing. ABS is just another addition to a long list.

Things have changed since that 17 year old kid with no helmet,sunglasses,T-shirt (white), jeans and sneakers mounted on a BSA B33.

NOT MINE BUT CLOSE:

Very nice photo. Looks like its taken in UK.

Ahh, the joys of twin leading shoe brakes. Even had those on my Honda CB175 twin . The powerful version , not the single carb (CD?175). Well, ...I thought it was powerful, which is more than you could say for the brakes....

[blueviewlaguna]

Coming from a 4 wheeled performance car background, it amazes me that riders (on non-linked braking systems) are expected to precisely modulate the rear brake lever with their booted foot in perfect (and ever changing) harmony (due to bike and rider weight transfer) with the front brake which happens to be a hand lever. The consequences of not performing this delicate balance perfectly (under the duress of an emergency) lengthens stopping distances tremendously - not to mention the greatly increased possibility of going over the bars, etc, etc. On the R1200R, the brakes are linked like an automobile, so I can bury the handle and let the electronics adjust for the front/rear balance.

I would sure be interested in knowing how a non-ABS R1200R manages to link the front/rear without the benefit of the ABS speed sensors.

To me, the linked aspect of the ABS is an important feature.

[vroomr]

While I've not been in an ABS-saved-my-life situation, there've been numerous times when I've really yanked that brake lever, and have confidently hauled that bike to a standstill without a hint of skid. That's some peace-of-mind, believe me. Ever fishtail from applying too much rear brake? That's no fun.

[celticus]

To paraphrase, The one time that I recognize that it kicked in and saved my butt made it worth it to me. It has very likely saved me more than once.
I am the sort of person that would say "Hell I don't need that, it is over kill." But ABS is good stuff.
Under the right conditions you don't need a helmet, or brakes.
I hope this isn't a case of old people giving advice.
Live to ride like crazy another day.

Mark

[ka5ysy]

Anything that can maybe save our skins is a good thing. Modern ABS is a mandatory item for me. Traction control, not so much yet...


By the way, if you think modulating the rear brake under heavy braking on our bikes is entertaining, look at how hard the HD forward brake pedal is to work properly !

[websterize]

If you only need it once - it's a bargain.

Our car has park distance control, which prevented me from backing over over my neighbor's dog this summer. It was $300 well spent.

[Bob Ain't Stoppin']

I've had one life saver with abs. On my R11RS and a lady pulled out of a gas station right in front of me. I did what I always do in this type of situation. Slammed on the brakes. Because of abs, I stayed upright and the bike stopped about a foot in front of the shocked lady who had also panicked and stopped dead in the middle of the road. Because I know my emergency reaction is to slam on the brakes, abs is a requirement for me. Otherwise I'll lock up the back and go down. Could I train myself out of this? Maybe. Emergency avoidance is an acquired skill, and I don't trust myself to remember this in a real panic situation.

[Jed]

I bought my R12R without ABS - on purpose. I specifically did not want ABS on my bike.
I've never owned a bike with ABS and was afraid I would be disadvantaged if I could not control the brakes directly and separately from each other (front and rear).

A lot of people have stated powerful arguments in favor of ABS and the current BMW ABS is well received in the marketplace. I don't fault anyone for their choices. But I chose something different from most. Maybe it's a bit of the "devil you know". I understand the limitations of my ability to modulate the brakes and I ride conscious of those limits. Am I safer than someone else? Are they safer than me? It depends on the circumstance. For most people ABS is a good thing, but that doesn't mean we are worse off for not having it. Consider the concept of "risk homeostasis". I would rather stay personally and actively involved in managing my personal safety. I don't want driving aids or safety aids. I'm an ATGATT guy, but I just couldn't warm up to ABS with out a disengage switch. If BMW had offered a disengagement switch on the R12R's ABS (as on the GS's) I would have gone with that option - in a heartbeat.

My car has ABS and I've activated in during times of driver error and lapsed focus. I'm thankful to have it - on my current car. I would not insist that a future car have ABS. I value the ability to lock my bike's rear wheel for those times when it might be appropriate. Responsible people should be able to choose how they want to manage their risks.

cheers,

[Caroanbill]

If it saves you once ...
... well, having had ABS in its various forms since 1994, it has been a lot more than once for me.

My K100RT was pre-ABS, and the rear disk was overkill - everybody locked it up sometimes, even our local police riders. I nearly went down a few times from small bumps, oil, dust or whatever causing a normal (but hard) brake pressure to lock the rear . My next K1100LT had ABS, same rear brake - no problem at all. Let me brake with more confidence and pressure.
Ditto my F650CS - overbraked on the back (but a little underbraked overall) and I regularly felt its simple ABS pulsing back through my right foot on hard stops. Without ABS I'd never have braked as hard (and sometimes hard braking was essential).
No comment on the powered ABS set-up on the R1150RS ... well, except "worrisome".

And now the R12R linked brakes with ABS are the most confidence inspiring I've had .. I had unexpected goats, emus, kangaroos and a couple of dosg, out on open roads last week (a quick 1600mi blat into the outback) and the ABS got worked out several times - a couple from 150km/h - without drama. My guess is that, even as a cautious rider, I'd activate the ABS in a panic stop a several times a year, of which two or three woudl have been serious to dire without ABS. The rest of the time the brake setup and ABS simply mean I can ride tricky conditions with less trepidation - so it improves my riding enjoyment all the time.

[Caroanbill]

bugger - hit quote not edit - ignore this one

[lewellen]

This might be an odd reason to want ABS, but...

I want it because of the linked brake system on the R1200R.

When I bought the bike, I didn't want ABS either ... experience with a BMW 1st-gen system on a friend's K75 had convinced me that ABS worked by scaring the rider so badly, said rider never got into an ABS-worthy situation again.

But, all the shop had coming in was ABS-equipped bikes, and if I wanted the computer but didn't want to wait for three months, ABS and the white turn signal package had to come with it. Of course I went through some fast stops with it when I got the bike, and have practiced on occasion since then. I never *really* got comfortable with the linked brakes - I was taught to apply both at the same time, and with the linked system I've never had a good feel for how much "the system" was already applying to the rear brake. Plus, I'd swear the amount of application changes with road speed. (At least the pedal feel suggests that.)

With the ABS that doesn't matter ... it will "make up" for overzealous application of the rear brake.

At this point, given my 'druters, I'd keep the ABS but dump the linked brake system ... which always seemed kinda redundant to me anyway, given the ABS.

Good roads,

- Lewellen

[ka5ysy]

... Because I know my emergency reaction is to slam on the brakes, abs is a requirement for me. Otherwise I'll lock up the back and go down. Could I train myself out of this? Maybe. Emergency avoidance is an acquired skill, and I don't trust myself to remember this in a real panic situation.

Actually, if you lock the rear, stay on it and you wont go down so long as you keep the rear brake locked unless you are way leaned over, in which case you need to stand up the bike and then brake (quick stop in turn!). If you are on good traction, and then let go of the rear, you might get a really spectacular high-side when the bike snaps back upright.

Grabbing a non-abs front brake and locking the wheel will dump you instantly. So long as the front wheel is turning, the bike will not go down.

Brake Mantra:
Squeeze the front, press the rear brakes.
If you lock the front brake, release it instantly.
If you lock the rear brake, press harder until you stop.
Rear brake only doing low speed turns.

The emergency swerve maneuver is an excellent method of avoiding a crash, and is sometime a better maneuver than grabbing all the brakes.

Find a MSF or Riders Edge Experienced Rider Course and learn to do these maneuvers on your bike. You will learn skills that will absolutely save your life, and we have a whole lot of fun.

The emergency braking, stopping in a curve, and swerve maneuvers are perishable skills that need practice ever time you go out for a ride. This trains muscle memory that will kick in and be there automatically when you absolutely need to do the maneuver.

The only gripe I have with the RR ABS is that you cant switch it off in low-traction riding, like gravel or dirt roads. There is absolutely NO braking downhill, and the only solution is to use engine braking. It does make for some thrilling riding though,Yikes !

[qfman]

I got the linked brake ABS R1150R in 2002. 100,000km with one lever to stop cured me of my tendancy to stomp the rear pedal. When I got my R12R a couple of years ago I didn't bother with ABS and couldn't be happier. It's very hard to lock up the front and I basically don't use the rear brake unless I'm at a walking pace.

If you discount 'panic-stomp's, the ABS is over-rated. The front brake is perfectly modulated.

Tom