Diagnosis Please

[All4Blakey]

Hi All,

I'm hoping to come up with a different diagnosis than the obvious one because I know how everyone feels about the problem I 'could' be having.

I've been having a recurring problem downshifting from 2nd to 1st. I REALLY don't want the problem to be what I think [not saying it].

I have an 04 RR with 26,6xx miles on it. I bought it used (2 previous owners) with about 24K miles on it. It seemed to have been maintained properly and looks great. Brian helped me change out the QDs, gave it a general inspection and thought it looked good.

Anyway, back to the problem. I've had problems downshifting. This has been happening with regularity over the last 2 weeks on my 9 mile commute to and from work. I know I'm not in first, I keep engaging the clutch and trying to get it into first and it just won't go. I stop at the light and when I take off it seems that I'm still in second because I have less power and have to goose it to get going. I've also been getting whiffs of that lovely burning clutch smell (even when I haven't had an 'episode').

I've tried to chalk it up to user error, but I've been acutely aware of it lately, and try to shift firmly and quickly, so I can't attribute the problem to my shifting anymore. I recently bought some new boots and thought that less flexibility in the ankle could be causing problems, but nope.

I've also had issues from time to time when I up shift. Usually after you shift, the transmission engages and there's tension in the shifter again (like having the ability to preload the shifter). I've had a few times when I couldn't get the tension back. The shifter was limp and I couldn't get it to catch so I could do my next shift. Finally after fumbling with it a few seconds I could get it to catch. Might be user error, as I'm still somewhat new to BMW (only 2K miles) but thought I should mention it here.

I've checked the clutch fluid and the level is fine. It doesn't seem dark either. I don't see any leaks under the bike either.

I'm not very mechanical and so I'm hoping that the problem isn't the spline issue (okay, there I said it).

Any diagnoses would be appreciated.

TIA.

[suzuki]

OK I have and sure others have had the problem with finding 1st gear if you start off in neutral. Half ingage the clutch. I've been teaching my daughter that on her TW200 Yamaha. The upshifting thing happens to me here and there and I just crank the R's up and try again. 35,300 miles and no problems. (knock on wood) I have over 50,000 on Jap bikes and these are the same issuses that I have had before. ( but smelling the clutch? only when I was smokin the tire on the Jap bikes)

[All4Blakey]

I never start off in neutral. I keep it in gear and hold the clutch when I'm stopped. If some idiot doesn't see me, I'd rather get out of there than be rear ended.

I'm assuming it's a clutch smell. I suppose it could just be hot. It seems like a new development though.

BTW, Jap bikes typically have wet clutches.

Thanks for the response.

[suzuki]

same here. I only put it in neturel if I know I'm going to be sit n their for a while. Just my repley cause you said not many miles on the Beem for you. And the smell ?

[iowabeakster]

This is a free internet diagnosis... without enough information (!). I am not sure that it'll be much help.

First off... I don't think the splines have anything to do with what you are experiencing. The typical spline failure goes something like this:

1. bike works normally
2. all forward driving force is lost (in gear, no clutch), and produces a horrible grinding noise instead of motion

I know some people have said they experienced difficulties in shifting before a spline failure. I can't figure out how the two might be related (if someone can explain that...I'm willing to learn).

So, why the difficulty in shifting???

There are a good number of possibilities (seriously). Here're a few:

1. The external shifting linkage is not working properly. It possibly needs a clean/lube job. It possibly has been bent. It possibly has come out of proper adjustment.

2. Worn parts on the inside of the transmission.

3. Clutch slave cylinder is failing (leaking). It can leak without any fluid visible on the outside of the bike.

4. Air in the clutch hydraulic system or even a problem with the master cylinder.


First gear on this bike is too tall...second gear starts... yeah, that'll get the clutch hot and smelly. If you can provide any additional information that might help.

[All4Blakey]

Thanks for the replies.

I'm having a hard time thinking of what information to provide.

A few months back I had a disagreement with some gravel. I lowsided at probably 25 miles per hour. The clutch lever was bent (but the dealership replaced it and did the insurance repair work).

It seemed okay right after that, but lately I've been having this problem on a daily basis.

[iowabeakster]

The low-side crash and the clutch lever replacement are excellent information. This makes me think that it is more likely a damaged shift linkage or a hydraulic clutch issue than, say, an internal transmission issue.

I really think your best bet would be to go back to the dealer that replaced the lever and talk with them. It'd be far easier for them to diagnose if they can look, ride, and touch the bike. Be sure to mention the crash and previous repair (in case they may not remember).

[revtexdave]

Down Shift BEFORE you come to a stop will help. It will also create muscle memory about the distance. It is a long way from first to second back up on acceleration. Playing with the clutch handle... only half to three quarter engagement can also be one of those quirky things that WORKS. Play with the RPMs and see Because it is a dry clutch you can shift up and down with out engaging, but you have to know the bike.
After the BMW dealer works on it and it works, note the thread count on CABBLE of the clutch adjustment bolts near where your right ankle sits.

[Mr. C]

I had the same issue, thought it couldn't be something as simple as the shifter, after all it "seemed" to work fine. But it was simple enough to take apart and lube, especially the pivot shaft. It made a difference right away.

I do get a burning smell from time to time, when standing at the redlight. Not sure if it's the clutch or the brakes or something else..

[sjbmw]

When the bike is sitting in neutral, put light downward pressure on the gear shifter with your foot.

Slowly ease some pressure out on the clutch, but don't release it.
Barely enough to make it grab ever so slightly. BARELY.
(we are talking relaxing your fingers just a little, till it might grab)

You should find that the bike will "pop" into first gear from the weight of your foot.

This is a "touch" thing.

[jcridge]

TIA,

The down-shift into 1st gear as most here are alluding to, is an engagement mismatch that most if not all the R's have, and usually the first time you put it into 1st gear you need to rock the bike or let the clutch out slight to allow the fork to lock-up, from then on its fine.

Having play in the shifter between gears as you shift from 1st to 5th is not normal, 6th gear is the only gear that you will have play in the shifter.

This isn't a diagnosis, but the only problem I see is the slack on the shifter. Lose or damaged linkage? You may have heard this before as well, but the BMW transmissions if properly maintained don't really start shifting like they should until ~ 30K miles. I've been aboard 4 BMW's that have under gone this transformation. I use synthetic gear oil and change it every 7-8K miles, never had a problem so far.

John