slight knocking, is it normal?

[michaelb1]

I've owned my 12r for less than a week. Yesterday I got my first full ride on it though the mountains of West Virginia, Maryland, western Virginia.

I noticed a slight knock/vibration. It's like the engine has a little play or give in it.
I'm not sure how to describe it other than it feels a little 'loose'.
Is that just normal for the r1220r?

Also, on start up a little puff of black smoke came out of the exhaust when i picked it up for the first time. I thought maybe the prev. owner hadn't ridden it in awhile.

Should I take it in for a tune-up? It has 7k miles and maintenance records.

Just want to know if the bike is fine before I pay someone a lot of money to tell me it's fine.

thx.


ps.
it road like a dream through the mountain twisties. can't wait to take it across the US this summer.

[ShinySideUp]

Something loose? I'll take a stab at it. Was this at idle or at speed? Are you using high octane fuel?

Don't know what bike you had before, but when I came from a water-cooled V4 to the boxer, I was surprised at all the clatter that comes from not having a water jacket to muffle sounds and also having the cylinders sticking out where I can hear them work, instead of buried under the frame, enclosed in plastic. 22K miles later, I hardly notice it at all, and when I do, I smile.

You say you have maintenance records, but not when the last tuneup was done. Should have been at 6K miles. If not, it's definitely time for one. As has been pointed out elsewhere on this board, it's quite common for the valve rocker arm end play adjustment to be too loose and still within specs. This can make your bike more noisy and many dealer mechanics don't take the time to adjust to the tighter end of the spec. Usually this needs to be only a one-time adjustment.

If I were you, I'd search this forum on how to do your own tuneups, simply because it's my opinion that I can take the time to set the valves better than my rushed local dealer wrench can or will. There's a worthwhile DVD available from Von Baden and some good DIY articles on this forum. I've gotten better at it the more I do it and my engine purrs now.

Puff of black smoke could well have been from long period of non-use. Has it done it since? If so, I'd check how much fuel you are using per mile. Do you smell fuel when you start the bike? Some of the causes of excess fuel are a faulty fuel pump, a leaky fuel injector, or a faulty engine computer or computer sensor. If you smell fuel BEFORE you start the bike, don't hit the starter button. Call the dealer and tell them what you found.

[bobw]

Good advice from ShinySideUp. Not sure how many miles you've ridden her, but a tank or two of fresh fuel and a couple oz's of techron or sea foam type additive will chase any boogers away that may have developed while not being used. The motor talks to you as described and also has a nice transition from idle that will rock the bike at a stand still. Unless there is some serious vibration, knocking noise etc., I would just check the oil and ride her a bit prior to paying for another service. If still in doubt, ride by the shop and ask them to listen to it. If it's the servicing dealer, I would bet they would gladly take a minute to put your mind at ease. Pretty tough motor with very few issues, enjoy her!


Congrats and good luck.

[michaelb1]

Thanks guys. Tomorrow I will start her up and have another listen.
Maybe I will take some HD video of her running and post it online.

[michaelb1]

I rode it to work today and paid special attention to the knocking. It seems to occur when I am starting out moving or slowing down.
At first I thought it was the clutch since it seems to happen as a start out thus releasing the clutch. Then I noticed it seems to happen whether i use the clutch or not.

i can feel it in the frame also, specifically the foot pegs and handlebars.

I'm using premium fuel.

I'm taking it in for service so i will mention it to them. The previous owner (just bought it last week) did his own maint. including the 6k service and logged it in the manual but I prefer to have it done myself just to start off with a clean slate.

[bobw]

Not to throw stones at the previous owner as I know nothing about them, but I agree with you getting the shop to do a service. What RPM and gears are you noticing this at slow speeds? It is geared fairly tall and at genuine walking speeds will almost allow you to count each power stroke of the motor, in other words, she's not being lugged to the point of bucking through the drive train or?

I was out for a 250 mile ride in the mountains today and I actually thought about your first post while listening to my bike. There is some "they all do that" clatter at start up/idle, but other than that she gives a lovely vibe that grows to pure sex from just over 4K and then turns to bike happytime addictive over 5K to the limiter. Get her happy at the shop and then RIDE her!! All will be good.


Good luck.

Bob

[Dan-A]

I hear what I would call piston slap occasionally on my boxer, especially if I rev it a little bit when stopped. I am not alarmed as the bike runs great and I believe it is a normal sound for the engine. Maybe that's what you are hearing?

[michaelb1]

I'm gonna take her in this saturday. The shop wants $600 for the 6k maint + annual service. The previous owner says he did the 6k but whatever. I'd like to make sure it gets done.

I took some HD video of the engine running. I'm not sure if the sound conveys well though.
Here is is on flickr:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/michaelb1/3595552041/

Here it is on Vimeo:
http://www.vimeo.com/5006198

It's a low RPM, like when I am at idle speed or clutched in between gears. So maybe it is just the normal sound of the engine.

[Dan-A]

Best I can tell it sounds like mine, but hard to tell that way.

[bobw]

I agree with Dan, sounds like mine too. $600.00 for a 6K!!!!!!! Holy Crap!, what are they doing to it? I paid less than a third of that for a 6K with brake fluid change and I then did my own oil and filter with BMW parts. There are numerous posts on service costs with links for the check lists they use (A+S BMW web site has them). I'd call around to get some other quotes as this is a very basic service/inspection.

Good luck with it.

[hjsbmw]

The engine sounds normal to me. At least mine bangs around a bit also in idle. It goes away at higher rpms. I haven't tried synching the tbs, and that comes to mind for smoothing out idle issues.

If you feel a knock in the frame I might suggest something related to the transmission/final drive. I feel some wind-up in the shaft occasionally, and tell myself that's normal as every BMW I ever rode had it. It is audible as a slight click-clack sound, and I can feel it through the footpegs, especially when pulling away.

Do others experience this?

[michaelb1]

bobw- thanks. I had no idea $600 was high. i assumed since it is a BMW.

I'm think now, based on everyones input that maybe the engine is fine.

hjsbmw- i think we have the same symtoms. the click clack and feeling it in the foot pegs is pretty much what I feel and hear.
It doesn't seem to happen at speed so maybe it is just normal low rpm behavior.


I'm gonna find the link to the check list and shop around for cheaper service. the problem is there are only 3 dealers within an hour of my house.

[bobw]

I should have copied the link for you. This should help.

http://www.ascycles.com/bmw_motorcycle_ ... dules.aspx

They also have a very good parts selection for oil change kits, brake pads, etc., etc., both OEM and aftermarket. A BMW oil change kit is approximately $50.00 and add a few bucks for brake fluid and "misc" shop supplies, and you are still looking at over $500.00 for labor. No insult intended towards them as the shop may have reason to quote that amount, but I would check around as I said. I have three shops, all over 100 miles away and I would not hesitate to use any of them. For my 6K I rode my bike to the shop early in the morning and then went to breakfast, kicked some tires and it was ready to go. They can do the valves after the motor cools and with a fan on the engine it's not that long a wait. If it is that costly in your area, I would suggest you enjoy a ride down the Blue Ridge Parkway and get your service done down here. For the same money you could have a nice multi day ride and get your bike worked on.

Area riders doing a tech day is a great way to learn how to work on these bikes.

Good luck.

[deilenberger]

The engine sounds normal to me. At least mine bangs around a bit also in idle. It goes away at higher rpms. I haven't tried synching the tbs, and that comes to mind for smoothing out idle issues.

Just a small comment - there is no idle sync possible on the TBs.. it's electronically controlled, and they both move in sync (if one is at 100 clicks - the other is at 100 clicks..) That may change in the future some day with aftermarket tool capabilities - but at the moment - sync at idle is whatever it is. Luckily - we don't ride at idle.

[deilenberger]

the problem is there are only 3 dealers within an hour of my house.

I suspect everyone who reads that is wanting to thump you on the head with jealousy.

Since I suspect one of those dealers is Morton's BMW of Spotsylvania VA - you have one of the very best dealers in the country in your neighborhood - if it cost a lot at Mortons there is a reason.

[bobw]

Good points Don.

Morton's and some others have a great reputation that is well earned and I qualified in my reply that "they" (unknown shop) may have reason to quote $600.00, but I would love to know what he gets extra for almost treble costs.

[michaelb1]

While riding today I focused on the knocking and learned something new. It happens when I give it a little gas and when I let off the throttle at low speed. Probably happens at high speed but I just don't notice it.
It's almost like the engine rocks ever so slightly in the frame. Of course it doesn't but the timing is consistent with that.
Or as if there is a part inside the engine rolling back and forth as the bike's momentom shifts. Again I'm pretty sure that's not the case. It's just what it sounds and feels like.

I changed the oil today to see if it was somehow causing it. It wasn't.

[hjsbmw]

While riding today I focused on the knocking and learned something new. It happens when I give it a little gas and when I let off the throttle at low speed. Probably happens at high speed but I just don't notice it.
It's almost like the engine rocks ever so slightly in the frame. Of course it doesn't but the timing is consistent with that.
Or as if there is a part inside the engine rolling back and forth as the bike's momentom shifts. Again I'm pretty sure that's not the case. It's just what it sounds and feels like.

I changed the oil today to see if it was somehow causing it. It wasn't.

Maybe someone more experienced with the topic BMW can chime in, but I still think what you experience is due to normal slack in the drive train.

[bobw]

No intent to insult by "preaching to the choir", but if you've had limited exposure to bikes and/or shaft drive bikes, you learn their quirks/personalities and to ride with them and not drive them like a car. Noises abound as your senses are not shielded by sheet metal and insulation.

Ok, terms like slow and fast are way too subjective for diagnosis over long distance. The motor does make the bike rock due to its design and you can feel it best while stopped/at rest with a mild "blipping: (technical term ) of the throttle. Are you saying it's a knock like a broken motor mount would allow a car engine to make or ? No weird vibes resonating?

There is some slack in all the drive line components from the trans to the F.D. If you load and unload the motor at "slow" speed, e.g., walking speed inching up in traffic or a figure 8, etc., you could notice the torque "rock" of the motor and you could also feel/hear the "clunk" or "knock" as the slack continued to be taken up and then released. If this is the case, it is normal and I would recommend you practice smoothness in some close order drills. I know if I make a tight circle with a slight drag on the rear brake and clutch slipping it will "talk" as you described, but this is not a routine maneuver used in normal riding, but stuff I do as a skill warm up. Check the rear wheel for any improper play and go practice your launches and stopping clutch work. On any motorcycle, the best thing to learn is how to be SMOOTH with throttle, clutch, brakes, steering or shifting your position and the transitions with all of them.

I'm sure she is fine, but please try some of the above and report good or bad with more specifics of how you duplicated the "problem".

Safe travels and ride her like you stole it..... She’ll love you for it!

[michaelb1]

no, it's nothing like a broken mount. Much more subtle than that.
It is probably just some play in the drivetrain as you suggested. In any case i am taking it to the shop for the full workup before i start my cross country trip in July.