Trouble starting - bad starter?

[chrisknuet]

Hey all - been a long time since I visited the site (a few years at least!)

I've still got my 1150r and I'm still riding it around Northern California, just not as much as I used to - especially these days. I can't get the big pig started.

Here's the backstory:

More than a year ago I started getting a squealing/squelching noise when I started the bike. The sound kind of happened at the tail end of kicking over the engine and wasn't consistent. My first thought was a loose belt.

I brought the bike in a year ago for an annual type service and mentioned it to the techs but they didn't mention it or charge me for it when I picked up the bike.

But the noise persisted, and so I assumed they just never looked at it (my bad for not following up).

I began to think that it could be the starter for no particular reason other than I only heard the noise during startup but I held out belief that it could be a belt problem.

After a year of little/no riding, my battery is pretty much toast. It won't hold a charge for long enough, so I decide to schedule an appointment with the shop to 1) replace the battery 2) check out that squelching noise and 3) just give it an annual once-over. This weekend I charged up the battery in preparation for my drive to the shop this week and to my surprise I can't get the bike to turn over at all.

Here's what I see:

1) good electrics - strong headlight, etc.,
2) when I turn the ignition I hear the fuel pump
3) when I press the start button I hear a stuttering that I think could be the spark plugs the engine might make an attempt to turn over but I don't get a full turn.

That's it. I believe I have fuel flowing, I believe I have spark, I know I have a charge.

Anyone out there have an informed opinion about my diagnosis that the starter is blown?

My next step is to remove the starter and see if there's any visible signs that this is the problem. I'm also toying around with the idea of removing a spark and double-checking that I'm getting spark (and fuel).

Thanks as always! It's been a while since I turned to this board for help.

[Sunbeemer]

Sounds like the starter is locked up, and the stuttering is your starter relay chattering as the starter draws the battery voltage down and it cycles open and closed in rapid succession. As long as the engine isn't locked up (and if you got a half a turn, it isn't) you probably just need to repair or replace the starter. There have been several really good posts in the past year or two about cleaning and repairing the starter (search this forum), and Valeo has a rebuild kit available for less than $20.00 (see http://63.135.101.225/database/mcinvent ... arch_fd0=8 ) that has the parts you probably need.

Good luck and welcome back!

[snowprick]

Did you try putting the bike in gear and rocking back an forth to free the starter? Might help but it sounds like a component failure.

[sweatmark]

We had similar symptoms, with exception of any squealing noise, and the problem was solely a bad battery.

Recommend you get new battery in the bike, charge it fully, and try starting again.

The squealing might well be the alternator belt.

[Twempie]

Could the squealing be a vacuum leak at one of the two fuel quick-disconnects?

[bransan]

Your battery is too weak to start the bike. The squealing noise is likely the belt slipping. It takes an incredible amount of power to start the bike when it's cold. After it starts the alternator works it's hardest to recharge the battery. The headlight is always on, not helping the issue. If the battery is weak,(as it has been for the last 2 years, as per Your post)the noise is very likely the belt. I would get a new battery,then drive it to the dealer and ask for a new belt and the annual service. This should rectify Your problems. You will have to remove the tank to change out the battery, if Your not comfy with that, maybe someone on here lives close by and can offer some assistance.

Good luck, I hope You get to ride soon!

[chrisknuet]

Thanks for the tips.

Yeah, right about now I'm feeling like a new battery is the way to go. And I'm feeling pretty stupid for not just replacing it this weekend when I had the tank OFF. Ugh. I don't know what I was thinking. I was working on some long-neglected projects which required the tank removal - and I just assumed the charge would be enough to get me to the dealership.

I don't know whether that is the whole problem, but it's A problem for sure so I might as well take care of that and see if that gets me anywhere.

I'll let you all know what happens.

[ruddy]

Your battery is too weak to start the bike. The squealing noise is likely the belt slipping. It takes an incredible amount of power to start the bike when it's cold. After it starts the alternator works it's hardest to recharge the battery. The headlight is always on, not helping the issue. If the battery is weak,(as it has been for the last 2 years, as per Your post)the noise is very likely the belt. I would get a new battery,then drive it to the dealer and ask for a new belt and the annual service. This should rectify Your problems. You will have to remove the tank to change out the battery, if Your not comfy with that, maybe someone on here lives close by and can offer some assistance.

Good luck, I hope You get to ride soon!

I beg to differ about the headlight being always on. As soon as you push the starter button, all of the lights are shut off until you release it. The squealing could be from a loose belt, and checking that is not difficult. The stuttering is probably because your battery is too weak. I just replaced my battery this spring for the same reason. Pulling the tank and replacing the battery is not really too difficult if you follow CycleRob's step-by-step instructions.

[chrisknuet]

Thanks for the help guys.

Indeed, replacing the battery did the trick. The big pig fired up right away, no problems.

Definitely saved me some heartaches of pulling the starter and monkeying around with that.

Stupidly, I had just had the tank off last weekend for some other work I was doing on the bike (replacing some FIAMMs, replacing a blown PIAA lamp, repairing a spliced wire to aux. brake (hyperlites) lights. With the tank of for all of this work, I stupidly charged up my old battery - when I should have just replaced it. It hadn't been keeping a charge well for a while (like I said, not much riding or charging over the last 2 years) and I had it on my list to replace it - and I should have just done it all then.

Anyway, thanks guys! I've got plans to be on the road more this year and this will help me get started.

[AirForceDirt]

Anyway, thanks guys! I've got plans to be on the road more this year and this will help me get started.

Absolutely nothing constructive to add except that is a terrible terrible pun. You should be proud.

[jsoque]

Glad you replaced the battery.
I had the same issue, and replaced my battery with a new gel cell.
Then, she started fine for about 1 month, then refused to start.
Upon closer examination by my mechanic, and inspection of the
starter, it WAS INDEED a bad starter. It took very close inspection
of the damaged starter, but there was the slightest 'play' in the
gear mechanism of the damaged one.
I found a Bosch one on ebay for about 140 bucks, waranteed and everything!
Anyway, good luck ride safe.

[chrisknuet]

That is a great pun - can't believe I missed it as I typed.

So I had the guys at the shop give it a once over to see if my suspicions about the noise were correct and they told me that they think it's the starter and not the belt.

The bike does start, and seems fine, and they said they thought I had some life left on the starter but they recommended replacement in the not-too distant future. They also recommended a local shop where I could pick up a Bosch item that is reportedly the same make as in the bike already, just without the BMW badging.

So that will be my next project, but I figure I've got a few months before I need to worry about that.

[snowprick]

That is a great pun - can't believe I missed it as I typed.

So I had the guys at the shop give it a once over to see if my suspicions about the noise were correct and they told me that they think it's the starter and not the belt.

The bike does start, and seems fine, and they said they thought I had some life left on the starter but they recommended replacement in the not-too distant future. They also recommended a local shop where I could pick up a Bosch item that is reportedly the same make as in the bike already, just without the BMW badging.

So that will be my next project, but I figure I've got a few months before I need to worry about that.

Can you enlighten us about the Bosch starter. Part / reference number

[qfman]

Chris -

It might not be a battery and it might not be a worn out starter. Have you considered a sticky starter pinion? I was getting a squelchy noise on startup as well - sometimes it would crank other times not. I found a procedure to actually pull the starter out and clean up and lube the pinion. You want to ensure the pinion will slide forward cleanly on startup. It's just a matter or spraying some lube like WD40 or RP7 in and around the teeth. Hardest part is getting the starter back in - you need small hands to turn a long bolt that is close to the engine. I did the job with the tools that came with the bike as well as maybe a shifter. I'm not a big DIY guy but found this job do-able and it's fun when you fix a problem without spending any CASH.

Don't chuck your starter yet !

Tom