question

[hphammer]

I am brand new to bmw and have always had harleys. I recently bought a r1200r. While idling the left side exhaust, at the head, got hot as exhaust normally does. The right side, by the right side head, stayed ice cold. About ten minutes of idling it began to warm up and get hot. Is this normal?

[hankth]

First of all, DO NOT idle a BMW for anywhere near that long without a fan blowing across the engine.
Damage will result. I have now idea why there is such a difference in left/right apparent heat. You may need to have the throttle body sync. checked.

[BigEasy]

I am no expert but FWIW I have seen numerous other posts on this forum and other that there is a noticible difference in exhaust temps at idle. Also from what I've read +2 on don't let it idle sitting still any longer than a couple of minutes at most.

[Lost Rider]

+3 don't idle a BMW for that long at start up.
Idling doesn't bring the engine oil up to operating temperature fast enough, therefore possibly causing damage. Just start up and go... taking it easy until the temp gauge is around the middle.
With that said I would like to throw in there that the 1200's hexhead engine seems to have much better heat management than the oilhead motor on my 1150R. Even while sitting in bumper to bumper traffic in hot summer temps my 1200R's engine has never overheated, I've never seen the temp gauge more than 2 bar's above the "normal" center, even while mostly idling in heavy traffic for hours. Unlike the previous model in similar conditions...

As for the the difference in temps on the header, I would ask your dealer since I am unaware of any certified BMW mechanics on this board....
It seems to me that if your engine was running on one cylinder it would be very obvious in how it was running.
Did it idle normally?


Welcome to the good life on two wheels, and to the Forum!

-Joe

[britguy]

I agree with the 'not idling' at start up comments.....I start and move off, usual within seconds and keep the revs in normal until its warmed up a bit.

However, .......what do you guys do when out riding in 100F heat and your engine temp is above normal and you suddenly find yourself in unexpected slow and stop traffic, the sort where you keep rolling forward a few yards at a time every few minutes and you cannot turn off and take another route?...and how is this any different from an 'idle at start' (not recommended).....Turning the engine off in any traffic situation is not a good idea...........but heat is heat right................just curious.

[Lost Rider]

what do you guys do when out riding in 100F heat and your engine temp is above normal and you suddenly find yourself in unexpected slow and stop traffic, the sort where you keep rolling forward a few yards at a time every few minutes?

...and how is this any different from a idle at start (not recommended).....Turning the engine off in any traffic situation is not a good idea...........but heat is heat right................just curious.

I keep riding....

The main difference I see is that you're already at operating temperature when you get in a traffic jam, and therefore your oil is able to do it's job of protecting the engine, even if it's running a bit warmer.

When you let it idle and warm up it takes longer to warm up than it would riding it, therefore extending the time your engine is running with less than optimal lubrication.



* I am not a master mechanic or engineer by any means, and this is just another opinion...*




This was taken while crossing the Mojave Desert, the highest I've seen my temp gauge.




Normal engine temp.



While I do still pay attention to the temps, I'm not too worried about my 1200R overheating. If it didn't overheat while going real slow off road in deep sand in the Mojave' or any of the other many times I've been thrashing it off road at low speeds in high heat, I doubt it ever will...

[hphammer]

Ok, I got it, dont idle too long. I didnt know if this was a fuel saver or otherwise normal condition. It does not miss and idle is smooth.

[boxermania]

I personally don't very much like temperature gauges without a numerical designation....I think we have established that the normal indication for the 1200R is in the middle.....does anybody know what is the temperature increase on each subsequent bar? That would be far more important to me.

On a hot day in heavy stop and go traffic, you will know when the engine and oil gets real hot because the engine idle will sl;ow down and the motor becomes somewhat slugish.....in my book that is the time to either find a side street and get out or stop for a bit (I define a bit as 20 minutes or more as the stopped engine will become a heat sink) and allow the bike to cool down.

[britguy]

Its mentioned idling can cause damage due to excessive heat.....exactly what damage are we looking at here and what are the signs or symptoms that I should look for if purchasing a pre owned bike?.....I can imagine a lot of careless air cooled owners over heating engines at idle, and not restricted to BMW.

Maybe its a reason to always buy new, but thats not practicable for everyone, so any advice?

[NeilS]

Actually, idling at cold start-up is far LESS dangerous than idling in traffic when the engine is warmed up. Plain and simple, the hotter the oil is, the less good a job it does at lubricating the important stuff. And the hotter the oil is, the faster the oil breaks down chemically, reducing its useful qualities.

The reason for this is simple. Although our bikes have oil coolers (oil-to-air heat exchangers), they do not have fans to force air through them. So, when you're not moving, the oil cooler is virtually useless. The only way to cool the oil (and the engine) is via convection off the cylinders.

Which brings up another question: Has anyone successfully fitted a fan to their oil cooler? And would it be a worthwhile addition for those of us who do get stuck in traffic?

[Lost Rider]

On a hot day in heavy stop and go traffic, you will know when the engine and oil gets real hot because the engine idle will sl;ow down and the motor becomes somewhat slugish.....in my book that is the time to either find a side street and get out or stop for a bit (I define a bit as 20 minutes or more as the stopped engine will become a heat sink) and allow the bike to cool down.

You are talking about your experience with a 1150R, right?
A completely different bike with a completely different engine, a different cooling system, a different engine management computer, right?

Actually, idling at cold start-up is far LESS dangerous than idling in traffic when the engine is warmed up. Plain and simple, the hotter the oil is, the less good a job it does at lubricating the important stuff. And the hotter the oil is, the faster the oil breaks down chemically, reducing its useful qualities.

Which brings up another question: Has anyone successfully fitted a fan to their oil cooler? And would it be a worthwhile addition for those of us who do get stuck in traffic?

Sounds like you've seen too many Valvoline commercial's with the engine overheating and locking up...
But hey, like i said, I'm no engineer so what do I know.
Should be interesting to watch this thread evolve.

As for a fan on the oil cooler, don't you think that BMW engineer's would have put one there if it was necessary? If something as common as idling in traffic was going to cause damage to the bike.....

I remember this this discussion when the 1200R first came out, and people were also saying that road debris from the front wheel was going to damage the oil cooler....
Oh, it's going to overheat, it going to be damaged.... going to need a fan and a oil cooler guard.

Either way it's finally a balmy 45ºF and I'm going riding..... Cheers!

[NeilS]

Sounds like you've seen too many Valvoline commercial's with the engine overheating and locking up...
But hey, like i said, I'm no engineer so what do I know.

I don't know the Valvoline commercials to which you're referring, but I AM an engineer, and I've worked on engine cooling/longevity issues in the past. It wasn't with motorcycles, and the engines were not oil-cooled, so I'm not sure how applicable my experience is to this, but the general rule is that excessive heat is not good for either oil or engines.

As for a fan on the oil cooler, don't you think that BMW engineer's would have put one there if it was necessary? If something as common as idling in traffic was going to cause damage to the bike.....

In an ideal world, yes, but engineers don't always get their way. Even German engineers There are marketing and economic constraints that sometimes (often?) overrule the engineering point of view.

BTW, from the owner's manual: "Cooling would be inadequate if the engine were allowed to idle for an extended period with the motorcycle at a standstill: overheating would result. In extreme cases, the motorcycle could catch fire. Do not allow the engine to idle unnecessarily. After starting, ride off immediately."

Sounds like the engineers might have lost this one.

[hphammer]

I believe I found the problem. spark plug was cracked.

[NoRRmad]

From idling too long?

[hphammer]

no, from a prior wreck. This bike is a rebuildable.

[Lost Rider]

I AM an engineer.....
the general rule is that excessive heat is not good for either oil or engines.

That seems very logical.

OK, since you actually are an engineer, on the topic of oil, heat, and damage would you say that the age of the oil can have a big factor in protecting your engine?
In other words if you sit in traffic regularly, heating up your engine beyond normal, should you change the oil more often, not going the 6,000 miles you normally would between changes? (Assuming your running synthetic)
It would seem logical that fresh oil would protect better in high-heat situations...

Still to this day my engine hasn't "overheated" under any circumstance, and I feel like she's been through it all with me from Chicago traffic day in and day out to crossing desserts... I've done alot of sweating on my bike, and it has never ran poorly, or idled differently. Only altitude had affected the engine for me...

no, from a prior wreck. This bike is a rebuildable.

Glad to see you found the problem, with no help from us!

So what does rebuildable mean exactly? Is that a salvage title bike?

[NeilS]

OK, since you actually are an engineer, on the topic of oil, heat, and damage would you say that the age of the oil can have a big factor in protecting your engine?
In other words if you sit in traffic regularly, heating up your engine beyond normal, should you change the oil more often, not going the 6,000 miles you normally would between changes? (Assuming your running synthetic)
It would seem logical that fresh oil would protect better in high-heat situations...

This is a very complex question, and there aren't simple answers. Manufacturers typically set their service intervals so they get acceptable lifetimes (and acceptable warranty costs) if the intervals are followed and the products receive typical "hard" use.

I think your instincts are right. If you feel your use goes beyond "typical," it would be a good idea to shorten your service interval. And using synthetic oil is probably worthwhile in these engines, mainly because synthetics are more resistant to chemical breakdown at high temperatures. But since our oil temperature gauges are uncalibrated, I don't know how hot our oil really runs.

Another approach might be oil analysis. You take a sample of your oil and send it to a lab. They can tell you 1) if the oil has broken down so it no longer has the required lubricating capabilities, 2) if the oil's additive package is still capable of providing the necessary protection to the engine, and 3) if the engine components are wearing at an excessive rate (they have a database of engines and what they're made of).

I'm not sure if oil analysis makes sense for ordinary consumers and their cars/bikes (I've only done it personally for work and for an old Lotus I restored), but railroads and truck fleet operators do it routinely to determine their oil change intervals.

[hphammer]

A rebuildable is a totaled vehicle that is rebuilt to orginal. It has to go thru a special inspection when completed and then may be registered but always has an R title. I just finished a corvette and now am working on this 2007 r1200r with 1200 miles.

[Bill Stevenson]

I am an engineer, too, and agree with everything NeilS has written here. Being an engineer is a sort of an affliction, which you all must understand in order to appreciate the story I am about to tell on myself. 20 years ago and more I used to send a sample of the oil to the Witco Chemical Co. (i.e. Kendall Oil) lab for all my vehicles every 3,000 miles including an R80 and later a K100RS. I did this religiously for years. What I learned is what Neil explained: Heat is bad. As heat rises the oil viscosity starts to break down and oxidation increases. The additives for wear and viscosity index improvement degrade more quickly. I added an oil cooler to the R80 and Luftmeister supplied a slick little dip stick thermometer so I could monitor the oil temp before and after cooler installation. All of this data was meticulously recorded. Sheesh, I am a sick puppy.

Anyway, if you ride a lot in hot weather, or in the desert, or whereever, change your oil more often. If the exhaust pipes get to glowing red, find a way to exit and shutdown for long enough to allow the beast to cool off. In other words use the good sense that God and your mothers provided to you. You don't need a degree in engineering, this ain't rocket science. The most important thing is to have fun.

Over the weekend riding around Daytona my gauge went to one notch below max, same as the photo of the gauge earlier in this thread and stayed there. Traffic was stop and go for over an hour and the temp was mid to high 70s. The bike has about 2,200 miles on it, the oil was changed at 600, and will be changed again at 3,000.

Bill

[ProductUser]

I live and commute daily in Phoenix, rain or shine (hehe). I have been stuck in traffic, with my 1150R in the middle of the summer, when the ambient temp was well over 100F; it was a lot hotter sitting in traffic that day, among the hundreds of idling cars. Once I got home, fearing my oil was toast, I changed my oil. To my surprise, the oil looked fine and it didn't smell burt. If there was a time in which I thought my oil was gone, that was the day. Now, I do use synthetic oil just for that reason: I ride in 100+ temps all of the time and for very long periods. The net-net it that you will overheat before your beloved boxer

ProductUser