http://world.honda.com/news/2005/2051019.htmlWhat do you guys think? Is an automatic transmission something that you would desire? For me the answer is no.
That would take alot of the fun out for me.
Tommy
Automatic Motorcycle
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Automatic Motorcycle
I am not as well versed in all things motorcycle as most of you here are, but I saw this and am very curous about it.
http://world.honda.com/news/2005/2051019.html
What do you guys think? Is an automatic transmission something that you would desire? For me the answer is no.
That would take alot of the fun out for me.
Tommy
http://world.honda.com/news/2005/2051019.htmlWhat do you guys think? Is an automatic transmission something that you would desire? For me the answer is no.
That would take alot of the fun out for me.
Tommy
Lifes a garden, DIG IT.
Re: Automatic Motorcycle
There's also the Ridley: http://www.ridleymotorcycle.com/houndog wrote:I am not as well versed in all things motorcycle as most of you here are, but I saw this and am very curous about it.
What do you guys think? Is an automatic transmission something that you would desire? For me the answer is no.
That would take alot of the fun out for me.
Tommy
I would think that this would be the bee's knees for the cruiser set, if Harley made one, of course. It's an extension of going out and riding, getting nowhere particularily fast. I read at one point that only 9% of cars in the US are standard. I suspect long term this *might* be the way bikes go. For me, it's more expense and trouble (coming from a BMW rider, heh), and less fun, control, and power. That's the reason I've never bought an automatic car, either.
Well if were to buy a sports car in my opinion,
i would want to shift the gears manually, that's all
part of the fun of ripping around a corner and just the
thrill of doing a quarter mile and smokin the tires through the
gears of your own control .
I think alot of the fun and feel are taken away !!!!
i would want to shift the gears manually, that's all
part of the fun of ripping around a corner and just the
thrill of doing a quarter mile and smokin the tires through the
gears of your own control .
I think alot of the fun and feel are taken away !!!!
2004 Silver R1150R abs
KeV !
KeV !
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socalrob
- Lifer
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LA has gotten to the place where its really not pratical to own a standard car for daily use if you commute.
The newest Mercedes 2nd generation radar cruise control will work in stop and go traffic from what I understand. You actually set your following distance, and when you set it short I understand its pretty short.
Hope it "sees" bikes.
Real men have the self confidence to let their cars shift themselves.
The newest Mercedes 2nd generation radar cruise control will work in stop and go traffic from what I understand. You actually set your following distance, and when you set it short I understand its pretty short.
Hope it "sees" bikes.
Real men have the self confidence to let their cars shift themselves.
07 1200GSA & 08 Ducati Hypermotard S
& Honda XR400
Past-04 R1150R
& Honda XR400
Past-04 R1150R
Years ago when the Honda 750 Hondamatic came out I rode one. It was weird! I agree with paper, it was a pig, and I kept looking for a clutch.
Every truck I have every had is a manual transmisson including my Dodge quad cab I have now. Real trucks you shift! The first thing I do when I get in the wife's mini-van is stomp the floor looking for the clutch, do it everytime, ya think I'd learn.
Went and looked at the new Mega cab from Dodge, nice truck, HUGE inside the cab, no manual transmission unless you get a diesal engine, so it will stay at the dealer until I can pony up the bucks for a diesal.
Roger
Every truck I have every had is a manual transmisson including my Dodge quad cab I have now. Real trucks you shift! The first thing I do when I get in the wife's mini-van is stomp the floor looking for the clutch, do it everytime, ya think I'd learn.
Went and looked at the new Mega cab from Dodge, nice truck, HUGE inside the cab, no manual transmission unless you get a diesal engine, so it will stay at the dealer until I can pony up the bucks for a diesal.
Roger
Many years ago, my (soon to be) wife wanted to learn to ride. She wheelied her sons dirt bike over onto herself. Got back up. Learned to launch the thing without incident. Rode around for another 30 minutes or so. Traversed the neighborhood a few times. Then parked the bike.
She was scraped and bruised from Sunday to Saturday.
She also vowed to never do that again.
We found a Honda 400 with very low miles. Couldn't wheelie it with a crane and two stout lads. It was a two speed torque converter (no lock up of any kind) transmission. I suspect any modern automatic would employ a MUCH more efficient system.
But she really loved it. Acceleration? Liesurely might best explain it, but it would certainly keep up with traffic. Handling? Nope, but she only cruised. And it would tool down the highway all day at 80. It certainly worked for her. And I have a soft spot in my heart for the bike because of our rides together.
We parked it after we'd been married a while and were surprised with our last child. It languished in our garage for years. We gave it to a woman rider last summer who vowed to fix it and ride it.
[Lest you get the wrong idea, speed was not a problem for Judy. When I met her she owner a Thunderbird Turbo Coupe. That thing hauled Azz. And she made good use of the cars capability. ]
She was scraped and bruised from Sunday to Saturday.
She also vowed to never do that again.
We found a Honda 400 with very low miles. Couldn't wheelie it with a crane and two stout lads. It was a two speed torque converter (no lock up of any kind) transmission. I suspect any modern automatic would employ a MUCH more efficient system.
But she really loved it. Acceleration? Liesurely might best explain it, but it would certainly keep up with traffic. Handling? Nope, but she only cruised. And it would tool down the highway all day at 80. It certainly worked for her. And I have a soft spot in my heart for the bike because of our rides together.
We parked it after we'd been married a while and were surprised with our last child. It languished in our garage for years. We gave it to a woman rider last summer who vowed to fix it and ride it.
[Lest you get the wrong idea, speed was not a problem for Judy. When I met her she owner a Thunderbird Turbo Coupe. That thing hauled Azz. And she made good use of the cars capability. ]
- Bill #438, Lifetime
If I'm going to grow up, I'd better hurry.....oh well.
If I'm going to grow up, I'd better hurry.....oh well.
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darthrider
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- Contact:
The Honda seems sort of "BMW-ish"...answering a question nobody asked with a techy-gimmicky solution.
I would never personally want an automatic on a bike for much the same reason I didn't want linked-servo'ed-ABS (would love plain ABS). I really don't want the bike, or some German engineer named Helmut making decisions for me that change the riding experience or my safety options. And certainly nothing that would encourage me - or some poor newby - to think riding a bike is like driving a car where you might often just "go along for the ride" and leave the riding/driving to the bike/car.
We've been through all that before on the ABS chronicles so no need to re-hash.
But... the piece on the Honda said this automatic is a Continuously Variable Transmission - CVT. This is a different breed of cat. It still has the disadvantages named above but I bet it has no performance disadvantages, at least not in accelerating. What these do is always operate where the engine RPM & load are optimized. The engine runs at it's power or economy "sweet spot" depending on how much fuel you're feeding it.
Someone will probably explain it technically but I think they may have a place in a commuting environment or if just straight line acceleration was your big thing.
My wife's new car is a Ford 500. A nice "luxury type" car for her that I would not have for myself but it has great safety features for her. It has a real slug of a middle-of-the-road V6 engine with a CVT tranny. Weird but nice and in the mags it consistently out accelerates other cars with larger engines or somewhat better power to weight ratios. It's the tranny.
I think we'll be seeing the CVT's in bikes before long. Couple it with a small high-output single cylinder turbo-diesel and you might just have a real "sleeper", at least acceleration & fuel economy-wise!
I would never personally want an automatic on a bike for much the same reason I didn't want linked-servo'ed-ABS (would love plain ABS). I really don't want the bike, or some German engineer named Helmut making decisions for me that change the riding experience or my safety options. And certainly nothing that would encourage me - or some poor newby - to think riding a bike is like driving a car where you might often just "go along for the ride" and leave the riding/driving to the bike/car.
We've been through all that before on the ABS chronicles so no need to re-hash.
But... the piece on the Honda said this automatic is a Continuously Variable Transmission - CVT. This is a different breed of cat. It still has the disadvantages named above but I bet it has no performance disadvantages, at least not in accelerating. What these do is always operate where the engine RPM & load are optimized. The engine runs at it's power or economy "sweet spot" depending on how much fuel you're feeding it.
Someone will probably explain it technically but I think they may have a place in a commuting environment or if just straight line acceleration was your big thing.
My wife's new car is a Ford 500. A nice "luxury type" car for her that I would not have for myself but it has great safety features for her. It has a real slug of a middle-of-the-road V6 engine with a CVT tranny. Weird but nice and in the mags it consistently out accelerates other cars with larger engines or somewhat better power to weight ratios. It's the tranny.
I think we'll be seeing the CVT's in bikes before long. Couple it with a small high-output single cylinder turbo-diesel and you might just have a real "sleeper", at least acceleration & fuel economy-wise!
Dave
#226
I've spent most of my life on motorcycles, the rest I've just wasted...
#226
I've spent most of my life on motorcycles, the rest I've just wasted...
I think the CVT can be very misleading as far as seat-of-the-pants feel. The numbers don't lie but your but will! (just ask any instrument pilot)
Picture this: Road race bike (your favorite series). Honda sponsoring. CVT tranny. No clutch but a "throttle" on the left to control the gear ratio. I wonder if it will ever be tried?
In all, it is not so diffrent in operation than a "constant speed" prop on high performance airplanes...
Picture this: Road race bike (your favorite series). Honda sponsoring. CVT tranny. No clutch but a "throttle" on the left to control the gear ratio. I wonder if it will ever be tried?
In all, it is not so diffrent in operation than a "constant speed" prop on high performance airplanes...
Forgive me if I sound like a Moron, but is the CVT Transmission similar to a Hydrostatic? (I am familiar with some slow speed Air Force weapons loading equipment that have a Hydro trans. I wasn't impressed.) Or is it something equipped with actuall gears that have a smooth mechanical operation?
You would think being an aircraft mechanic I would know these things.
Thanks,
Tommy
You would think being an aircraft mechanic I would know these things.
Thanks,
Tommy
Lifes a garden, DIG IT.
Hydro-Static is one of those marketing terms adopted to describe a certian type of system. It uses a logic controlled valve to vary the amount of fluid running to a hydraulic motor. I suppose it is a type of CVT but it is better suited to low range of speed stuff like machine equipment.
A "true" CVT allows a continuous variance of ratios between input and output shafts. The torque converter in your typical moped and scooter is a good example. Most cars use a similar device that uses a metalic belt that allows it to move the heavier torque.
The same thing can be done with hydraulics but you would have to use variable displacement pumps and / or motors. That's off-the-shelf technology but pretty expensive.
The trick to getting performance from a CVT is deciding what ratio to use and when (just like a manual). Want max performance? Rev to max HP or torque and the vary the speed with the ratio. Want max efficiency? Use the ratio to maintain the lowest possible engine RPM at all times.
The one thing you won't get is that jolt in the seat of the pants when the ratio changes. Since max acceleration is achieved quickly and simply maintained, after the launch there is no further "feel" to it. We tend to only sense the change in G's, after all.
If you think that's weird in one axis (straight forward), try it in all three! Piloting a plane through a cloud will give you some very wrong seat-of-the-pants info!
A "true" CVT allows a continuous variance of ratios between input and output shafts. The torque converter in your typical moped and scooter is a good example. Most cars use a similar device that uses a metalic belt that allows it to move the heavier torque.
The same thing can be done with hydraulics but you would have to use variable displacement pumps and / or motors. That's off-the-shelf technology but pretty expensive.
The trick to getting performance from a CVT is deciding what ratio to use and when (just like a manual). Want max performance? Rev to max HP or torque and the vary the speed with the ratio. Want max efficiency? Use the ratio to maintain the lowest possible engine RPM at all times.
The one thing you won't get is that jolt in the seat of the pants when the ratio changes. Since max acceleration is achieved quickly and simply maintained, after the launch there is no further "feel" to it. We tend to only sense the change in G's, after all.
If you think that's weird in one axis (straight forward), try it in all three! Piloting a plane through a cloud will give you some very wrong seat-of-the-pants info!
Sounds like I'm in the majority here also. Yeah, I want that CLUNK or how will I know I'm riding a true Bavarian machine?? I've had cars and trucks with AT's but I went 130 miles out of my way to get my Nissan Xterra with an 5spd manual. Especially living in VT again, I need and demand the control and choice of the manual tranny. I really love the honest to GOD no electonics relays 4hi/4lo lever!! Gonna miss it on the the new gen Xterra.
Craig
Craig
Life is too short to use cheap toilet paper 
Member #457
95 R1100R Red
Member #457
95 R1100R Red
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Tell me about it! I was lucky to find my Subaru Legacy wagon in 5 spd. I was looking for a car for the wife, who misses her 5 spd and I'll be darned if I can find one! Well, that is, one without being of the sports-sedan variety. Those would be cool, too, but who needs the cost?
At least MCs will remain manual for the immediate future!
As far as a cage, though, when I'm finally forced into an auto-tranny - it will be a CVT. Hopefully they will come out with a "sports stick" shifter for them by then...
At least MCs will remain manual for the immediate future!
As far as a cage, though, when I'm finally forced into an auto-tranny - it will be a CVT. Hopefully they will come out with a "sports stick" shifter for them by then...
Saw this on Corbin's Ride On show last night...
http://www.automaticmotorcycles.com/html/main.htm
http://www.automaticmotorcycles.com/html/main.htm
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Member #48
pj
Member #48
pj