Okay, Another One...

[dallara]

Okay, here's another one...

Who can correctly identify this classic?







(again, only re-touched to eliminate the identifying logos...)

Cheers!

Dallara

[dallara]

Nobody???

This one should be pretty easy now...

Cheers!

Dallara

[Paul Mihalka]

Maico?

[DJ Downunder]

I've never seen a Maico without those radial cooling fins on the head or coffin tank...but it could be an early one..

DJ

[Paul Mihalka]

I know the key is the head fins at a angle instead of straight front to back, but I'm not sure it was Maico. I was not much into dirt bikes.

[new2BMW]

Maico did have tanks like that before the coffin tanks. The fins on the head are pure maico. I suspect that maico was the right guess. probably a model from 1966 to 1969.

[dallara]

Nope, Folks...

It's not a Maico. Not even close...

Sorry!

Cheers!

Dallara

[Capt. Blackadder]

Hmm... I'll bet it's a Montesa.

[Photo]

My guess is that it is either an MZ 250 or a CZ250 Jawa/MX variant. This looks like the Eastern Bloc motocross bikes of the early 1970s, but I think the cylinder heads on the CZ were a bit thicker. Both the German (MZ) and the Czech used those diagonal cooling fins on the top of the cylinder, at one time or another.

[R75/5]

It's a COTA by montesa. I worked in a shop back in 1975 that sold montesa and moto morini. I wish I had a few of the bikes that we had for sale. I was riding my new 1973 R75/5 and my yamaha 360n enduro and only dreamed of the 350 MORINI as a collector's item. turns out it is.

[dallara]

Nope, Folks...

It's not a Montesa... Just FYI, Montesa Cota's were trials bikes. Montesa Cappra's and VR's were moto-cross models.

Here's a Montesa Cota trials bike from near the period of the Trivia Bike:



And here's a Montesa Cappra (VR's didn't come on the scene until the mid-1970's):




And no, guys... It's not an MZ. CZ, nor Jawa off-road variant... Nor is it from an Eastern Bloc country...

MZ wasn't into moto-cross at the time, though they were doing the ISDT, but here's a couple of pictures of a Jawa MX bike of the period:






And here's a couple of pictures of a CZ correct for the period of the bike in question:








All of those were good tries, but still not the right one...

Keep on tryin'!

Cheers!

Dallara

[cooter]

Looks like a villiers motor, so it must be either a Greeves or a Cotton.

[mtwillyman]

It looks like a Hodaka.

[jamming]

Looks like a Harley Davidson dirt bike, however they were ONLY badged Harley...they were actually built by Bultaco.

On another note, I used to ride a Montessa Cota, both the 247 and 348 in observed trials here in Arizona in the late 70's.
Roger

[dallara]

Well...

It is most definitely *NOT* a Hodaka... Hodaka didn't make a 250 until just before their demise, and it was called a "Thunderdog" and looked like this:




It's not a Harley-Davidson MX bike either... Harley didn't make a foray into the larger MX classes (like 250 cc like the bike in question, though their Baja 100 was oftem MX raced) until the mid-1970's. And their MX'ers were not made by Bultaco... Nope, they were produced in Italy (Bultaco's are from Spain) by Aermacchi, which had been building Harley's smaller bikes for years, including the Sprint four-stroke singles and Harley's 250 cc World Championship GP bikes ridden by Walter Villa. Here's a pic of a 1978 Harley 250 MX bike:




But yet, folks...

!!! WE HAVE A WINNER !!!


Cooter got it, even if it was part of a half-wrong guess...

It's not a Greeves... Though Greeves did use Villiers engines some during that period.

However, it is a Cotton - a Cotton Cobra MX bike to be exact!

Cotton Cobra's used the Villiers "Starmaker" engine, just like the Cotton "Telstar" that was the subject of another "Moto Trivia" thread, and the AJS "Stormer" MX bikes used a later version of the engine, too.

Cotton Cobra's were first sold with Earles-type leading-link forks, but were later available with Ceriani-type conventional forks. Here's an ad for Cotton Cobra's of the period:




If you have a sharp eye, notice who was the USA importer of Cotton motorycles...

It's PABATCO?

Anyone know the significance of PABATCO, particularly in relation ot this thread?

Congratulations, Cooter!

Well Done!

Cheers!

Dallara

[darthrider]

PABATCO -
Pacific Basin Trading Company, importer of Hodaka.
I never knew they imported Cotton also.
Remember when some guy circumnavigated the Australian continent on a Hodaka Ace 90?
Very impressive I suppose, but it begs the question "Why?"

[dallara]

Ah yes, Darth-Meister...

I can see that you, too, remember the period well.

Hodaka and PABATCO - one couldn't have ever existed but for the other.

But now can you tell me the connection between Hodaka, PABATCO, and today's Subaru automobiles???

Cheers!

Dallara

[Deans BMW]

I think, but not sure that the connection is Fugi Heavy Industries.

[darthrider]

No clue...

[dallara]

No worries, Darth...

Dean's got it!

Teh connection is Fuji Heavy Industries in Japan. PABATCO originally was an importer of various brands of motorcycles... In fact, PABATCO's history is one of the most fascinating you will ever find. You can read some interesting things about them here:

http://starrfilm.com/articles/OdeToHodaka.html

One of the brands they imported was Yamaguchi. Here's a picture of an early PABATCO ad showing a couple of Yamaguchi models... Take particular note of the "80cc Ace", as it was this engine that became the basis for the 90cc, 100cc, and 125cc Hodaka's:




When Yamaguchi suddenly went bankrupt/belly-up on PABATCO in 1963, the company was faced with a terrible problem, as motorcycle imports had become a very large part of their business...

Enter Fuji Heavy Industries... PABATCO actually contracted with Fuji to produce engines for them, and using Fuji's contacts PABATCO was able to source other components to produce their own, complete motorcycle - the Hodaka!

Here is some info detail on that subject:

When Yamaguchi went out of business in 1963 this put a financial burden on Pabatco in Oregon (the distributor) and Hodaka in Japan. The folks at Pabatco had the brainstorm to ask Hodaka not only to build motors but to build complete bikes to the Pabatco design . This really is the short version.
Hodaka was not a financially strong enough company at that time to survive without help. They went to Fuji and traded in the best interest of both companies. Hodaka was able to use Fuji's letter of credit to buy parts from companies making ignitions, pistons, etc..
Fuji recieved possibly money ? but also the use of the Hodaka motor design. They were not exactly alike but looked very similiar. Fuji motors were sold to Chapparel, Indian, Rupp,Kami,Barnt etc.. These companies made the rolling chasis's and bought the fuji motors to place in the bikes.
Hodaka sold E (replacement) motors to several companies that were doing the same thing (building rolling chasis's and using the purchased motors). These companies were Steen's, Bonanza, Rickman, K&G minibikes, Van Tech,Herter's minibikes. There were even some bootleg companies at that time making rolling chasis's and using Hodaka motors like the Pederson Wildcat (which was a rotary valve Hodaka) and Barnt. Both of these were done in Taiwan and shipped to the U.S.

Of course, Fuji Heavy Industries is the manufacturer of Subaru automobiles today...

Sometimes motorcycle history takes some weird twists and turns, but that's what makes it all so fascinating!

Cheers!

Dallara