'06 model 1150R

[Simon D]

This from the UK BMW Club magazine, Nov' 05.
"BMW have announced changes to the existing ranges for 2006. The 1150R gets two new colour schemes - a matt metallic white and metallic blue to replace existing colours and the 1200LT is now offered in in grey and black metallics. The 1200GS is available in Granit Grey metallic and the 650GS in a bright red to replace the yellow."

Make of that what you will but "matt metallic white" sounds like the Rockster "edition 80" colour to me!

Simon.

[big papa]

Maybe they had a poo load of extra paint and need to get rid of it...

[Leno]

It also says no new R1200R for 2006, so they must have a pile of engines to use up as well. Perhaps I should buy a new one to replace the current one befoe they go and spoil it.

[bakernks]

[quote="Leno"]It also says no new R1200R for 2006, so they must have a pile of engines to use up as well. Perhaps I should buy a new one to replace the current one befoe they go and spoil it.[/quote]

That's what I did. It appears that any R1200R is going to come to us years from now, they are clearly concentrating their resources on the new K 4 cyl, the new Vertical Twin and the like.

[jimcameron]

It appears that any R1200R is going to come to us years from now, they are clearly concentrating their resources on the new K 4 cyl, the new Vertical Twin and the like.

They also learned their lesson when they introduced the new R1200GS while they still had unsold inventory of the R1150GS. They got hosed on the "left over" R1150GS sales. My bet is that as soon as the unsold R1150R units are gone from the dealers, the R1200R will make an appearance.

[Pat]

I got to think'n about this yesterday.

The "old" 1150 engine AIN'T THAT BAD!!!

Fact is,
I'm a bit put off by the new counter-balanced smooooth Boxer engine; I like the feel of a twin beneath me (stop it, git yer mind outa the gutter...), and the new one is without the characteristic 'vibe' of a two cylinder.

Now..... if they mount that 'old fashion 1150' in an upgraded package that has been shaved of some weight, give it a narrower seating area for the legs to hang to the ground better (for those of us short of inseam), and reduce the price significantly...... I could find myself trying to choose between the new parallel twin and an inexpensive tried & true R1150R.

I've always thought there was a reason why we haven't heard a darn thing about any kind of "new & improved" R1200R....... it might be because it simply ain't happening.

[dallara]

I'm kind of with Pat here...

Having now ridden a BMW R-1200-ST Hexhead I'm not totally convinced it is an *improvement* over the tried and true 1150 Oilhead...

Yes, it makes more power, but at the expense of the Oilhead's mid-range grunt... And the new Hexhead is smoother, but not enough to warrant the extra complexity of a counterbalancer, IMHO... It's lighter (and that's important), but it's not that much lighter... And the Hexhead has become pretty complex for an air-cooled flat twin, what with the CANBUS, multiple knock-sensors, etc....

Sometimes "new" isn't necessarily "better", just different. I know there are those who *LOVE* their new Hexheads, and I respect that... I just don't know if there is *enough* there to make me want one more than my Oilhead. So far my Oilhead has more than held its own in its only meeting with a Hexhead, one on one... And its paid for and I'm used to it. Got lots of goodies to go along with it, and I know it well.

I'm gonna' keep it... Yep, that's for sure.

Maybe there is going ot be a "new" R-1200-R, but it will have to be something truly spectacular for me to think of trading my trusty, dusty R-1150-R for one.

Cheers!

Dallara

[darthrider]

Another thing is that the R1150XX and R1200XX engines are really very different and from what I hear, different enough to not share any common manufacturing tooling.

I imagine their R1150XX tooling is fully amortized by now. And probably would like to keep making the 1150's anyway. Both for economic and production reasons (to 'supplement' R1200 engine mfg. capacity)...maybe.

Another slant on that is if the R1150R *bike* is to continue to be their entry level "big bike", aka twin, they might prefer the less powerful 1150 for that. They could surely de-tune a R1200 but they do not need to. Hotter engines = more newbies in the ditch.

Or maybe they have long(er) term commitments to engine parts suppliers and have to stay with them a while.

But for me, although I haven't ridden - or ridden with/against - an R1200, I would certainly prefer a 1200 powered Roadster. Lighter, smoother, more powerful...what's not to like? And they could be "torque-tuned" like the R1150GS/R motors (R1200GS) which is what I would want.

I like the looks of the R1150R motorcycle *much* better than anything they build with a 1200 motor and I can certainly do without all the gee-whizz gimcrackery they seem hell bent to drown all their models with now.
But lighter - smoother - more power? Bring it on baby!

I am alternating riding the 50R and the Speed Triple now, with occassional exercise rides on the Black Kitty Super Moto and the Norton. It's the 50R's turn this week. All the way to work this morning I kept noticing the vibration, lack of power and "wooden" handling...and weight. I know this is an apples & oranges comparison, especially for me as my 50R is now pretty much my (sport) touring bike where some of those things may not be so important.

But as a naked/open/roadster...it has so much high quality competition now that I think some upgrades are really called for and the engine is the place to start, IMHO.

There is a whole market that is rapidly growing out there outside this R1150R board and much of it has little interest in our beloved Roadsters. I'm not talking now about what you & I want...I'm talking about what the *market* apparently wants. Lots of good stuff under the $10K threshold and a growing group of stellar bikes above. I saw several versions of the MV Augusta Brutale this weekend...Hoochie Mama! Ducati Monsters, Aprilia Tuono's, interesting Japsters out the wazoo. Yamaha's growing line of MT-01 descendants & relatives. Softer-edged street Super Motos that are really just small, light, quick nakeds.

You and I might prefer exclusivity and to not see another bike like our own except in "club" type situations but BMW seems interested in selling more motorcycles. Maybe I'm wrong but I don't think the R1150R is the bike to do that for them.

[dallara]

Well, of course...

BMW didn't just produce our "beloved" R259 Oilhead's to be used in motorcycles...






So maybe they will still be producing them for other uses, but...

Seems like the new "Hexhead" has even made inroads into these other applications...






Then again, maybe they could start using them for washing machine powerplants... After all, Maytag used to make a "Boxer" for just such use...




I'd imagine you would need a pretty torquey powerplant for doing the laundry loads I do!



Cheers!

Dallara

[darthrider]

Allan -
I actually have a running Maytag "boxer" just like that! 'Cept mine's black. And has duals. That green one is missing a sheetmetal shroud over the kickstart gears. Is that yours?
I offered to find the washing machine to go with the powerplant but Miz Betty threatened bodily harm...

Do those BMW boxer water pumps surge?

[dallara]

Now that's *REALLY* weird, Darth...

You remember when I posted here about my "mentor", Jack Connolly?

Well, Ol' Jack had a collection of Maytag washing machine engines! Two or three of the "boxer" twins, and about a half dozen of the singles. All were in various states of running, and we used to a lot of fun with 'em... Some afternoons out at his shop we would just fire one off and let it "pop-pop-pop... pop-pop-pop-pop-pop... pop-pop... pop..." around the floor just to see the look on people's faces!

Then there was the time he painted one of the singles yellow-and-black... See, Jack really didn't like two-strokes right at first... In fact, he didn't really like 'em at all until Honda came out with the first Elsinores. Well, there was this Yamaha dealer in town at the time named Mike Ward... weird, *WEIRD* guy... You coould really jack with Mike because he got his feelings hurt so easily

Anyway, somehow Jack got a hold of a Yamaha DT-1 MX GYT kit silencer. He painted one of the Maytag's yellow-and-black, and rigged the DT-1 MX silencer to it, and the next time Mike Ward came out to the shop he fired it up and started telling Mike that it was the next prototype Yammie MX motor... Mike should have laughed, but he didn't think it was funny. That just wound Jack up more, so whenever we would go to races Jack would haul along the "Yamaha" Maytag and fire it up all day long and tell folks he had got it at C.C. Yamaha (Mike's shop)! He even scored some Yamaha decals and stuck 'em on the silencer...

Anyway, you are the *ONLY* other person besides Jack I have ever known that has owned a Maytag! Pretty ironic, eh?

Most all of Jack's were actually a red/orange color, and I can't remember where the hell he got 'em... Bought 'em all at once from some guy is all I can remember. Don't know whatever happened to them, either... Though I wish I had been smart enough to snag one or two...

I snagged the picture of the green one off the web.

I can't wait 'til I get up to see the Norton so I can see your Maytag, too!

Cheers!

Dallara

[darthrider]

I paid $120 for mine at a car swap meet. A friend offered me $240 on the way home.
When I got home I proudly showed it to Miz Betty. She wanted to know what I was going to do with it (what a question!) I told her I planned to start it, get a cold beer and just sit and watch it run. I started it for her and as she left I heard her mumble "Must be a guy thing."
Well I had a couple of beers, then a couple more...it was fascinating! Then I decided to get a piece of Scotchbrite and polish the aluminum flwheel/cooling fan. It did a great job until I stuck my "bird finger" in the fan part and clipped of a little chunk of skin.
I went inside expecting sympathy and first aid.
I did get the first aid.
Miz Betty mumbled something about "what a great toy *that* was going to be."

Women have no sense of humor.

There are many more stories about me and my Maytag...

[JCsman]

Allan -
I actually have a running Maytag "boxer" just like that!

Well this has inspired me to start looking for a track day opportunity. I have learned to live with the fact than almost the entire board can probably out ride me. But if I ever meet Darth and he passes me on a Maytag washer.......

[Guest]

how about we go back to the discussion about 2006 r1150r's?

any other rumors? facts? tidbits? maybe a picture scan?

[DJ Downunder]

Zip!!!......

DJ

[dallara]

For our "Guest", who said:

how about we go back to the discussion about 2006 r1150r's?

any other rumors? facts? tidbits? maybe a picture scan?

Unfortunately, as of right now there are no other rumors, facts, tidbits, picture scans, etc. Believe me, if there were this board would be one of the first places to post anything like that about it. Thsi forum has one of the best and most "connected" sources for information like that in our own Dean "Grandpa Hoon" Lear... A great example is this recent thread on the new R-1100-S:

http://r1150r.org/board/viewtopic.php?t=4363

Through his contacts at BMW he seems to get the "scoop" on any new Beemer model before anybody else, and whenever one comes along he always posts it here.

That said, I'm am truly afraid that there is actually *NOT* going to ever be an R-1200-R at all...

Why?

Well, for me one has to only take a good look at the evidence...

1.) The R-1100/1150-R series was never a very big seller for BMW, though it filled the niche for a "naked" or "standard" bike. It was also sort of BMW's "entry-level" twin.

2.) It certainly cost BMW nearly as much to produce the R-1150-R as the R-1150-GS, but it always had to be priced lower to sell, so profitability had to be far lower, if not non-existent, on the R-1150-R models.

3.) Rockster sales were an even bigger market disaster than the the plain R-1150-R.

4.) BMW is bringing a new 800 cc parallel-twin to the marketplace, and this is obviously going to be targeted as their "entry-level" BMW. Since it will probably sell at, or close to, what R-1150-R's sold for, any R-1200-R would have to move "up market" to avoid BMW having direct showroom competition with a model of its own...

5.)BMW never had a "naked" version of its previous K-bike "flying brick" laydown fours, but now it *DOES* have a "naked" version of the new, transverse K-series fours... And one with higher performance, etc. than an R-1200-S could have. Most other manufacturers "naked" bikes are version of their biggest, baddest sport bike series, and BMW is obviously following this trend. One would have to think BMW thinks the K-1200-R will more than address their needs in the "naked" segment...

6.) BMW has the R-1200-ST, R-1200-RT, and R-1200-GS models already out, along with the HP-2... The first three have been available for quite some time now, so it stands ot reason that if an R-1200-R were coming it would have been here by now, or at least announced...

7.) BMW is slated to release four new models in days - the R-1100-S, the R-1200-GS Adventure, the T-800 parallel-twin models, and the K-1200-GT... If an R-1200-R were coming one would think this would be as good a time as any...

8.) Not counting any singles, let's take a look at what appears to be their line-up...

Two T-800's
R-1200-GS's
R-1200-ST
R-1200-RT
K-1200-R
K-1200-S
K-1200-GT

They still have the K-1200-LT based on the old engine layout for their touring whale, but no doubt something else is in the pipe to replace. Will be interesting to see if they base that on the new K-1200 engine, or if they are going to try something else new... That is a market niche they cannot afford to walk away from.

But if you look at the line-up there is really almost no place for an R-1200-R to fit in... If they price it low enough to get decent market penetration they will be taking away from their own new 800 cc parallel-twin's... Models they have obviously already spent considerable R&D funds on.

However, if they price it the other way they run into their own GS series (and the GS series is BMW's best selling model both in the US and in Europe, with the RT second in both markets) and the K-1200-R. Worse than that, if they price it anywhere above the target pricing of the 800 twins, they would distance waaaaaaaaaaaaaay too far above the similar performance Japanese "nakeds" like the Honda 919's, etc. and the Triumph Speed Triple, etc. Pricing it much anywhere above these bikes would almost guarantee it to be a market failure...

Nope, sad as it is for me to say, I'm afraid that an R-1200-R may never see the light of day unless there is some drastic motorcycle market shift, or unless there is a complete shift in what looks like BMW's marketing strategy.

I still hold out hope for one, but I wouldn't bet on one...

Cheers!

Dallara

[darthrider]

But if I ever meet Darth and he passes me on a Maytag washer.......

Well, it is a twin!
Much faster then the lowly Maytag single...yep, they have them too.

[Boxer]

Here's that photo from the September BMW ON magazine.

Looks like the tank may be a little different. I dunno...

[Simon D]

Sadly I aggree with Dallara, BMW are really quite a small scale maker. I've been to their Berlin factory and unless they've extended it waaaay over it's original size they don't have unlimited production capacity.
The 850/1150R hung in on the "coat tails" of the GS/GSA. All the same tooling, lots of common parts, made sense. While the GS1150A was such a big seller (and since "The Long Way Round" it has been, every other Beemer you see over here is one and they command HUGE secondhand prices) the "R" was safe.
Now with the 1200GS/A anounced along with the new 800's I'm afraid it's the end of the line for our favourite.
Still, look on the bright side, it looks OK (in that photo) in White & Blue and those of us who feel the need can still go out and get one to ride happily into the sunset..........................................................
Simon

[DG02]

I agree with Dallara's points, particularly with the idea that the new 800 parallel twins will fill the R bike's market niche.
One small point though, there was a naked K100. The very first K bike introduced to the market in 1985 was a naked model called simply 'K100' with no following letter designation. Rather than any type of fairing it had a painted 'pod' around the instrument cluster. It only lasted for the first year or two of production.