Help with r12r low throttle response issue

[Invertedmike]

Hi everyone;

I'm a new owner of a used r1200r. I've been wanting one for while and finally made the leap from my cherished VFR800 to the German boxer.

First of all I am really enjoying the ride for the most part. The build quality, ease of maintenance access, naked view without a fairing, low c of g maneuverability, powerful brakes, suspension, no chain, the list goes on.

However I have a significant concern / irritant which I hope has a solution that I can get some help with.
Throttle response during acceleration and cruising speeds is excellent, but low speed throttle response, specifically at 40kph and lower is absolutely horrible.

If I want to regulate the speed with throttle, for example reduce from 40 kph to 35kph, even when consciously tweaking the throttle off as accurately as possible, the engine responds with a huge throttle cut and subsequently I'm lurched forward against the tank. Very uncomfortable and frustrating. At the end of my ride my long street is a 40kph limit, and I like to respect that for my neighbours and kids in the area. However I already dread the end of my ride's 40kph cruise because of this ridiculously sensitive throttle.

Is this normal? A function of BMW's fuel injections system? A function of the shaft drive Paralever? If so, then I will just have to suck it up and learn to live with the disappointment of this poor low speed throttle control. However if there is a solution out there that someone can enlighten to, I'm all up for learning it please.

Within a day of owning the bike, then researching this concern, I ordered the "Booster Plug" without hesitation because many of the reviews were highlighting the same symptoms I was experiencing and that the BP solved the lurching, hesitation, low throttle response problem. To my great dismay, there was zero difference in how the low throttle response handled the low speeds. Below are some quotes that parallel my experience.

I hope this thread will generate a solution that I have missed. Throttle cable adjustment? (seems to have the appropriate amount of play however) Should I be visiting a Motorrad dealer with this problem? Could the Booster Plug I installed actually be defective? (I plan on returning it and asking them to confirm its functionality)


Looking for help

Thanks;

Michael


2008 r1200r
stock bike mechanically.
Rear Paralever was replaced 2 years ago under warranty
All service routinely completed





It was in the tight switchbacks that an annoying trait of the fuel injection mapping reared its ugly head. When rolling off the throttle, the bike doesn't gradually decelerate in proportion to the throttle position, it lurches forward, snapping up all the slack in the drive line. This often results in a jerk to the rider's body and a corresponding lurch in the throttle hand, further exacerbating the situation. The experience is vaguely K-bike familiar, in the sense that the throttle is very sensitive to small changes. But it's much more pronounced on deceleration, and I'm hoping that a few more miles, and perhaps a computer software update during the 600 mile service, will reduce or eliminate this behavior. It's not enough to ruin the ride, but it did have me paying more attention to my throttle hand and planning ahead to avoid full on throttle chops.

viewtopic.php?f=20&t=24402

Booster plug installed, very happy rider! Here's the story: My bike is a 2007 R1200R with 22.000 miles on it, which I have had now for about 3 months. As much as I love the bike, the one thing that always bugged me was the jerky throttle. Shifts took extreme concentration to execute smoothly and throttle roll-off was as if the engine had been shut off and somebody had tossed out an anchor. Needless to say, I was concentrating more on the throttle, instead of enjoying the ride. I decided, despite the cost, to try the booster plug. After studying all of the posts, the installation turned out to be quite simple and took me about 20 minutes. I have just come back from a 100 mile test drive and the difference is amazing. Shifts are now smooth without even thinking about it and throttle roll-on / roll-off is no longer jerky. 
So, does the booster plug work? For my bike, yes definitely. Am I imagining the difference? Definitely not. Is it worth 150 bucks? Well, lets not kid ourselves, it is overpriced but if you have the problems I had, absolutely worth the investment! Hope this helps some of you that might be "on the fence".

[Snapping Twig]

Booster plug solved the issue for me. Not 100% perfect, but enough to make it mostly seamless and a non issue.

Only things that come to mind are placement of the new probe. Is it in an area unaffected by heat? It needs to be reading the same temp as the stock probe.

Of course, it also needs to be properly connected and while I'm certain it is, a double check is a low cost possible solution.

The other issue could be a defective Booster Plug. It's a device and as we know, things fail. Might want to investigate a replacement if the above doesn't solve your problem.

[Invertedmike]

Thanks for the reply. My install was through, with probe up front in the fresh air between headlamp and tank. But I was going to lift the tank and check the connections again for sure like you suggested. I wonder if the connections were not making contact, if the warning system would have let me know there is not a temp sensor reading. I hope it is just a defective BP, and that a replacement will cure this. But this is a solid state device so my hopes are just that.

Could you detail for me what throttle issues you had specifically before installing the BP which you said it solved?

Thanks;

Michael

Booster plug solved the issue for me. Not 100% perfect, but enough to make it mostly seamless and a non issue.

Only things that come to mind are placement of the new probe. Is it in an area unaffected by heat? It needs to be reading the same temp as the stock probe.

Of course, it also needs to be properly connected and while I'm certain it is, a double check is a low cost possible solution.

The other issue could be a defective Booster Plug. It's a device and as we know, things fail. Might want to investigate a replacement if the above doesn't solve your problem.

[Snapping Twig]

Somewhat the same issues you had - lurching and surging in 1st and 2nd gears at 3500 rpm and lower.

No neutral throttle when letting off, more of a shut-off. Throttle felt like and on/off switch as opposed to a potentiometer in the way it worked at low RPM's/speed.

[David R]

You need to check TPS voltage. I don't know what its supposed to be.
Throttle cable balance come to mind also.

Other possibilities are spark plugs or one stick coil.

If there is NO change with the booster plug, the n you probably have another problem. My R1200R is stick and the throttle works quite well.

I am used to the quirks of FI, but can go twenty mph inn a school zone with no problems.

David

[badbs101]

Sync the throttle bodies?

I've heard it mentioned several times as one of the solutions for this type of behavior; unfortunately, it seems to be somewhat the nature of the beast. Some feel the newer models, '11 and '12 are a tad better in this regard.

[David R]

Synchrotron cables, I don't think you can sync the throttle bodies.

My bike is a 12 all I can do is match the cables.

Did you adjust the slack out of the throttle cable at the grip?

[Invertedmike]

Thanks for the replies.

I'm away out of town working for a couple more days, re-checking the throttle cable play at the grip will be my next step then when I get home. I already checked for smooth free movement and seemed normal. There was some slack in the grip before throttle opening. I had assumed there should be some slack. After some more reading I understand many guys take almost all of the slack out. I'll try loosening the adjuster as much as I can before there is idle movement with handlebars turned both ways.
I've read that adjusting the closing adjuster too tight can cause the throttle to bind and appear sticky. I wonder if that could be the culprit and it sticks, then releases abruptly at that particular low throttle position?

I may also do that TPS reset procedure with the battery disconnected to reset?

Maybe I have TPS defect? I hear BMW has a diagnostic that can check its voltage throughout the curve?

[moto-m]

What revs are you using when you suffer this problem?

I've owned a 2006 R1200R and now have a 2012 R1200R and compared to the previous models (particularly the 1100 engines) I found both to be vastly better as regards surging at low speeds, but you do have to change down to a gear that allows the engine to work above 2000 rpm - ideally around 2500 -3000 rpm works best.

These engines, although twins, do not amble at low revs in the way that a Harley does.

Mike
Cheshire UK

[Invertedmike]

I've experimented with each of the three lower gears at 40kph. 2nd should be best. 2500-3000 rpm range. Buzzing around at 3500-4000 in first should not be the technique. It should comfortably cruise in second at 40kph, even third gear.

If I hold constant throttle during slow cruise no problem. The issue is if I want to smoothly roll off power just slightly to adjust speed a bit down. The throttle is not linear. There is a very sudden drop off resulting in hard engine braking. Unacceptable.

One day I hope to find the cause. Sooner would be better, it really ruins the ride for me.

[deilenberger]

My - there is a lot of misinformation floating around this thread.

I'd suggest: If you are an MOA member, go to the Hexhead forum (that I moderate) and look for the DIY/Tech subforum. Start reading. There are excellent hands on DIY's for almost anything you want to do on this bike, but you must be a member to view these. If you're not a member, sign up, be the best $40 you've spent this year.

OK..

1. The R1200R (and all the modern hexheads) rarely need throttle-body sync. The cable design and junction box seem to be good enough that it simply doesn't drift out like older oilhead engine ones did. I have very close to 60,000 miles on my bike (it will have 60k by the end of this week..) and so far - aside from doing it once to write up the DIY for the MOA, I've never adjusted my TB sync. Once the valves are set correctly - the sync is dead nutz on.

2. Tweeking the Throttle-Position-Sensor is an oilhead thing. It won't do a damn thing for you on the R1200 engines.. the ECU learns the position of the TPS all by itself. Tweaking it will not make the engine run richer (which is what was happening with the R11xx bikes and surging..) Leave it alone. You will do nothing good by dicking with it, and chances are, you may well break it. It can only be set with a diagnostics tool for initial settings - luckily a GS-911 handles that fine.

3. Get used to a big twin. With modern FI (which shuts the engine off basically on decel,) and a big high compression (12.5:1? or higher?) twin engine you get a huge amount of engine braking when you back off the throttle.. This is unlike a smaller engine, or an engine with more (smaller) cylinders and carbs/CDI. It's as they say "the nature of the beast.." The rather high gearing that the R1200R has, in first gear is also partly to blame.. and there is slack in the driveline that gets taken up on accel/decel - unlike many chain drive bikes.

As Mike from the UK suggested - drop down a gear. The bike will be happier and you'll be happier. And the cost is absolutely zilch.

4. You might try adding friction to the throttle. I use an O ring located behind the bar-end weight to add enough drag to the throttle so it becomes basically neutral. If I take my hand off the throttle it doesn't close.. but it's very easy to twist close. This helps prevent small motions that start feeding back on themselves, causing the lurching. It also greatly helps me do all day rides without my hand going numb.. It will take you about 5 minutes to get used to this.. but once you do I suspect it will help a lot with smoothing out your deacceleration.

I'd give the above some thought, and don't go throwing $$$ at it hoping it will get better. Part of the problem is actually you (sorry, but it really is..) and with a bit of playing around you can fix that part for no cost at all.

[Invertedmike]

So a non-linear throttle response is the norm while gently releasing the throttle at the low end.
You're saying a consequence of a big twin, high compression, and the shaft drive. That's too bad. I've ridden plenty of bikes without having to concentrate so much with the slow cruise, first time for everything. If I don't find a solution, I'll just have to adapt and suck it up.

In the meantime I'm going to endeavor to test ride other similar boxers to have a frame of reference. The last time was 2 years at a BMW open house. I don't remember this ridiculous sharp throttle cut-off when I did several 20 minute rides on a 2009 r12r and r12rt. I'm certain it would have turned me off this engine right away instead of the opposite effect which was giving me the goal of purchasing an r12 in the future as soon as I could.

Now I finally have one. Just not the same riding experience however...

[David R]

maybe this will help.

chop the throttle at 3500 rpm in what ever gear. 2nd? Feel the bike and engine. Watch the tach. When it gets down around 1800 rpm listen to the exhaust and feel the engine fire back up.
Turn the throttle gently.

Herkertiy Jerkity throttle. Fuel Injection has many good things. Turning off the engine when coasting saves gas and brakes.
Going down long hills i try to find the spot in the throttle where it just turns back on. It may pop in the exhaust and has less engine braking.

I was wrong about the TPS.

David

[Thumper680]

Hi guys, newbie here, shopping for an R1200R for my wife. Rode an 1150 Sunday, commented to the owner how little shaft effect, smooth throttle response. Rode a 1200 today, exactly as original poster said, terrible lurch on/off closed throttle. Impossible to ride smoothly, feels to me like a decel fuel cut (as others have said) coming on and off. Hopefully somebody who has experienced ( and cured) the problem will post. It's not that the original poster can't ride....
I'd like to buy this bike, but this would drive my wife (and therefore me) nuts.

[Invertedmike]

I have an update to this low throttle dilemma.

The next step in solving this issue was to compare engines personally. A few days ago I was fortunate that the timing of a buddy's voyage home from a cross-America trip on his r1200GS was going to pass by my place. He graciously offered to swap bikes with me to evaluate the throttle responses. I value his opinion because he has a great deal of experience riding and maintaining several Boxer's he has owned over the years. Furthermore he was fresh off a 4 week, 16,000km voyage on his r1200 across America and back. Check out his amazing travel Blog http://gsexplorer.com/the-bike/

After extensively riding his bike, particularly at slower speeds around 40kph I was able to get a good feel for what my engine should be behaving like. Still present as expected was the typical shaft drive slack and big boxer engine-braking, but the abrupt throttle cut-off when initiating a coast or throttling back slightly from slow speeds (ex 40kph in second gear) was not there. The low throttle response was as I remembered test riding an r1200r a couple of years ago.

After our first ride he briefed me on his impressions after riding my r1200r. He experienced the same annoying, un-commanded, unexpected, throttle-cut lurch I was experiencing. What proved to me that he experienced the same fuel cut jolts at low throttle was when he explained that he'd be cruising along at 40kph, in the appropriate second gear, enjoying the view and then suddenly, and inconsistently, a significant throttle cut with him being lurched forward. He completely understood what I was frustrated about. Absolutely ruins the riding experience when at low speeds one has to be so concerned about initiating even a slight throttle reduction to maintain speed on a down slope, or reduce speed on level ground, that the engine will probably lurch you forward with an abrupt power cut.


Bottom line. It is not normal engine behaviour for this bike. He suspected an issue with the fuel mapping but did not know for certain of course. I'm thinking and hoping the Motronic unit may have an update that was missed. Looks like only a visit to a Motorrad service centre will be able to answer this and provide the software update if that is the solution. I have a GS-911 code reader now. I'll look to see if that has the ability to interpret the Motronic and give me a software version number.

I'm a very competent rider and very meticulous about how I operate my bike. A carry-over from being an Airline Pilot, as is my buddy. We are anal about how our machines run. I was certain this behaviour could not be normal, I just needed to confirm it with a practical test on another bike and another experienced rider personally evaluating my bike's throttle response.
My throttle wrist control is very precise, I'm not the type that needs an o-ring to smooth out how I handle the throttle tube. Hopefully I will get some more constructive replies to this thread. I will certainly be joining BMW MOA. I was letting my wife get the membership for me as a gift in the near future, but maybe I better just sign up earlier to tap into the resources of that membership sooner.

In the meantime I've been clocking several thousand kilometres on this bike already. Really enjoying the ride (when above 50kph anyway) I've learned to deal with and mostly avoid this low throttle cut-off threshold half of the time. However I should not have to put so much focus on when I'm tickling the edge of throttle cut off. It should be a more linear response as I experienced on my buddy's r1200 bike. One day my bike will be perform similar…

[deilenberger]

Sorry you didn't find my suggestion "constructive" - it was not intended as a slam at your riding abilities (which I'm certain far exceed mine..) - but it does reflect what I've found works with 61,000 miles on an R12R. Your enhanced description of your bikes behavior (going along at a constant 40kph and having it lurch from a fuel cut) is NOT normal behavior - unless you're in too high a gear and the engine is close to lugging or idling (say below 2,500 RPM.) With my disdained O ring, I can remove my hand from the throttle at that sort of speed to pick my nose or adjust my balls or shake the hand out, and I don't experience that. The bike just keeps going the speed it was at.

Funny thing - yesterday I rode a friends R12R - identical to mine except not as much crap on it yet, and a problem suspension (too much lowering of the bike..) I found his throttle difficult to control at low speeds. I'm assuming that must be due to my imprecise and unskilled handling of the throttle without the O ring, but perhaps it was something else. One thing I noticed is his had almost no play whatsoever in the off-position. I purposely set about 1/8" of play into my throttle cable so I can keep it from doing a herky-jerky on/off thing at very small throttle openings. That may make a difference for you - and it's no cost to try it.

Keep us up to date on what you find out. FWIW - my friend liked my O ring'd throttle, as do several local club members who have put one on their R12Rs.. To each his own.

I'm sure you'll find the MOA Hexhead forum useful - I'm the moderator there.. The DIY's have been found of particular value by members.

[MTBeemer]

........ The DIY's have been found of particular value by members.

You betcha!

[Invertedmike]

Funny thing - yesterday I rode a friends R12R - identical to mine except not as much crap on it yet, and a problem suspension (too much lowering of the bike..) I found his throttle difficult to control at low speeds.



Hey Don. That is a very interesting observation about a lowered bike affecting throttle control. This is what is great about forums, the exchange of ideas like this. The previous owner of my bike is shorter than me. My bike has had the factory lowered suspension since new, and it also has aftermarket Wilbur shocks installed. I wonder if adverse Paralever geometry changes from a lowered suspension setup could cause an abrupt drag reaction in the drive at reduced throttle and lower speeds? Another note, the Paralever on this bike was replaced a couple of years ago after it failed. I don't have the why? details however. I wonder if my shaft drive can be the culprit from eithor the altered suspension or an issue with the Paralever replacement?

I don't know if I can diagnose the difference between this deceleration surge coming from a throttle cut-off/Motronic issue, or a drag reaction from the Shaft Drive. Ultimately I may have to find a proficient BMW service manager that will take the time to diagnose this properly. I've been given a recommendation, will just have to make the time to arrange a service appointment. At least now I have two ideas to present from my experiences.



Btw, adjusting the throttle cable play was one of the first solutions I tried. Did tests with a variety of slack levels in the throttle tube. No difference.

Also I've played with different friction levels on the throttle tube with the installed Throttlemeister. Has not made a difference for me. I don't know how significant this is, but I also have light surging in the power with the throttle locked at 40kph and 2nd gear on level roads. I've also determined that First gear is too low for 40kph, and Third gear is too tall because the engine lugs too much unless decelerating.

The power cut issue I've detailed above is experienced with a variety of combinations of low speeds and gear selections and sometimes appears inconsistent. I've now developed a good sense of what gear works best with various speeds and loads. Believe me, I've already put several thousand km on this bike and almost all of my riding when at low speeds feels like I'm doing Test Pilot duties evaluating throttle performance, LOL. Where this frustrating power-off experience is most prevalent is in the 40kph and second gear regime. That has become my benchmark for testing solutions. Maintaining 40kph in second, then initiating a very slow throttle roll off to slow down without brakes. The day I can do this without the significant deceleration lurch, problem solved.

Thanks for the feedback.

[Steve in VT]

Jeez, here all along I thought it was just my old synapses and fine motor control going to hell. Turns out it was the R12R throttle gremlin!

The first week I had the bike, I went around a corner in my neighborhood and was trying to accelerate, upshift, and cancel the turn signal all at once. Big mistake. I nearly wheelied, and then I slammed into the tank. Damn throttle like an on-off switch.

"Suck it up" seemed to be the preferred method of taming the gremlin, so I spent months refining my throttle technique. The "muscle memory" I had acquired on my forgiving little '84 R65LS simply wasn't up to the demands of the big boxer.
After 8K miles, I can finally manage a steady speed at anything from a walking-pace u-turn to a stately 40 MPH boulevard cruise, but IT WASN'T EASY! The beast can be tamed, and I don't think you need to spend any money to do it. I still have trouble with the 2-3 upshift, but I can live with that.

Great detailed info on this thread, BTW. I'm curious how the re-engineering of the FI will work out. And what is a Booster Plug"?

Steve

[Invertedmike]

LOL. Suck it up… Yeah, that was going to be my solution initially also until I learned that this power response is not normal for this engine. Also I have to say that it burns me to my core knowing that something mechanically or electronically is not performing as it should, thus affecting my enjoyment of my toys. If this was a P.O.S. lawn tractor that I was borrowing from a neighbour to do some landscaping then I wouldn't give a flying *&^% about how smoothly it operated. But I'm a bit passionate about my leisure machines, in particular my joy of motorcycling. And finally getting a boxer powered r12r has been a goal I'm glad I finally accomplished. I would say that I've managed to "tame this beast" about half of the time while out riding by trying to avoid the throttle cut-off threshold at low speeds. However I should not be trying to avoid anything, it should respond as designed. I don't want to learn to "tame a beast" so to speak, indefinitely.

And now that I've completed the ultimate test by swapping bikes, I've reaffirmed my expectations. In particular, my experienced buddy has expressed that it completely "ruins the ride" when he rode my "beast" with its inconsistent power reduction lurches at low speed. His R bikes did not do this. He understands my frustration and hopes it will get cleaned up for me eventually. So this issue I have is not just a "BMW boxer thing", but an aggravated problem. I know about the "boxer engine and shaft drive peculiarities ". I worked with them when riding my friend's r1200 and actually enjoy the big twin's power style. That experience now gives me a frame of reference for what my bike should ride like particularly at lower speeds. I actually enjoy initiating a smooth transition to a coast before a stop when riding motorcycles. I'm feeling robbed now, LOL.

I suppose I could just sell the bike after owning it for such a short time, but that seems like an extreme decision. I'm going to put some effort into restoring its performance first.

It would be remarkable if an answer popped up on a forum with a post detailing the same symptoms, a probable fix and a resolution. Or I find a Motorrad Service Manager with a passion for his products that will solve this issue for me. If there is not a solution found by the end of next season, who knows, maybe a trade-in for a newer cam head…

At the very least sharing this experience online is also motivating me to find an answer.