Mandatory ABS

[rickmbmw]

A BMW dealer in Pittsburgh indicated that all European motorcycles are required to have ABS for model year 2013. I wonder if BMW will allow a special order for a non-ABS version into the United States. Any thoughts?

Rick

[boxermoose]

snicker....look down the thread list - see the one with the little lock on it

[ContraMoto]

I think the dealer will order a special helmet that doesn't come with the thick plastic part that covers the head. Just a chinstrap and a eye shield. Nobody wants the round part messing with their driving skills.

[rickmbmw]

Oops...I was unaware of the debate taking place over this topic in an earlier post...my apologies. I just hope that I'll be able to purchase a non-ABS BMW in the Unites States in the future.

[Boxer]

Rick, I'm with you on the non-ABS elective. And there are plenty of others who think the same way. While ABS is probably a good way to go for some, its not my first choice for options. I would hate to see the non-ABS option on special orders taken from us.

[rickmbmw]

I fully appreciate the benefits of ABS but I've ridden for 44 years and I've never had it. I like keeping things simple and prefer not to have ABS so I hope BMW doesn't remove that option. I travel extensively and I sense such an adversarial attitude among BMW dealers that I visit. They make me feel I am insane for not wanting ABS.

I am in sales and focus on meeting the needs and demands of my customers. The BMW salespeople I encounter don't seem to subscribe to that philosophy.

[MJB]

I like my ABS. Not only for the fact that knowing it's there there if I need it, but makes everyday braking easy. Just use the front brake. The breaks, front and rear, are linked together, so for everyday braking I just use the front break
I still use the rear brake only when in gravel

[sjbmw]

BMW announced all 2012 models will have ABS.

http://www.webbikeworld.com/motorcycle- ... cycles.htm

I think the new race bike has a switch to turn it off. It is highly doubtful that non-ABS bikes will be available.

There are "hardly" used bikes out there without it.

If someone does not have ABS, or decides they don't like it, they are still a fine upstanding citizen.
As well as those that do have ABS, they are equally upstanding.

(I don't have ABS on my R1150R, and it's purely due to not having $1500 extra to spend.)

[mogu83]

Just a thought (as this has turned into a BS thread), can you buy a car in the US that doesn't have ABS ?. Seems like it's a standard feature like air bags.

[mogu83]

This isn't for professional motorcycle riders or the exceptionally talented rider. Just for us old duffers and a few young inexperienced guys that just want to get down the road without getting killed.

Interesting read: http://www.iihs.org/news/rss/pr111011.html

[deilenberger]

The Cliff notes on the article Harry posted are:

Motorcycles equipped with antilock brakes have a 37 percent lower rate of fatal crashes than the same models without antilocks, Institute researchers have found. The Institute's affiliate, the Highway Loss Data Institute, has reported that collision insurance claims are filed 22 percent less frequently for motorcycles with antilocks than for those without it.

I'm guessing those numbers are fairly accurate since those are the people who keep those sort of numbers. I do get an insurance discount for having ABS - but it wouldn't matter to me at all - the cost is recouped the first time you need ABS.

[PhilSB]

Having a cynical nature it crossed my mind that insurance premiums would be increased if your bike didn't have ABS.

I saw a report that Bennetts bike insurers (in the UK) will not insure a bike that has more than three non standard parts, even stickers, racks, huggers, led winkers etc. would be included as non standard
http://www.motorcyclenews.com/MCN/News/ ... hree-mods/

Phil

[fleuger99]

Having a cynical nature it crossed my mind that insurance premiums would be increased if your bike didn't have ABS.

I saw a report that Bennetts bike insurers (in the UK) will not insure a bike that has more than three non standard parts, even stickers, racks, huggers, led winkers etc. would be included as non standard
http://www.motorcyclenews.com/MCN/News/ ... hree-mods/

Phil

Hi Phil,

Does this include BMW options? What about items that are not BMW but are installed by a BMW dealer? This could fall into a grey area.

[PhilSB]

Re:Bennetts insurance
"Does this include BMW options? What about items that are not BMW but are installed by a BMW dealer? This could fall into a grey area."

I don't know how these items would go with Bennetts but I would expect BMW options to be OK, but I would not take any bets on it Other accessories I would expect to count toward the three items.

I've just looked on their website-

This is a quick reference guide and not advice; if you have any doubt then call our free advice and quote.

The following non-standard modifications/accessories do not affect your premium or our ability to quote, although you still need to disclose these:Lights / Indicators, Sissy Bars (Long Back Rest), Crash Bars, Crash Bobbins / Protectors, Tank Pads, Heated Grips, Radiator Bars, Scottoilers, Seat Cowl, Huggers, Change of Screen.

The following common modifications/accessories may in some cases lead to an increase in premium and in exceptional cases may lead to a decline to quote. Unless we specify otherwise, you must disclose these items in all cases.- Exhaust (Road Legal), Fairing/Panniers/Luggage, DynoJet Kit (Stage 1, 2, or 3), Air Filter, Upgrade Seat Replacement , Belly Pan, Power Commander, Wheel Change, Tyres(If your replacement tyres are a different size or speed rating to the original specification you must tell us - of course they must be road legal), Bar Ends, Suspension Changes, Carbon Fibre Replacement Parts , Braided Hoses , Race Replica/Paint/Decals.

If in doubt give them a ring, or alternatively say, "Sod it" and ring someone else

Phil

[Chumley]

http://www.motorcyclistonline.com/featu ... index.html

Just sayin'... something to consider.

I have ABS on one bike and not on another. I like it but don't require it.

Comparing cars to motorcycles should be pretty tough to do. Riding a motorcycle usually implies a greater understanding of the need to be able to control a complex piece of machinery. Cars are designed to be operated by the lowest common denominator in the auto driving world, which is woefully low. Essentially, the car manufacturers have been sued or the fear of lawsuit so include everything from ABS to some form of vehicle stability control to seatbelt warning chimes. ABS in cars has gotten much better but I have driven some trucks with empty beds that would be well served not to have it. Brakes think wheels are slipping when you hit some chatter coming to a stop sign or light and keep the vehicle rolling.

I still think you should have a choice and then be responsible for your choice. Of course that is somewhat naieve.

And to think I was looking for posts about CeeBaileys to send them when I stumbled across this.

[jkhomes]

I have seen too many motorcycles operated by the least common denominator.

The ABS is great with me, as well as the linked brakes. I prefer airbags in my car too. If you want simple, better go waaay back to the old air cooled boxer you can fix with a welder and a sledgehammer. No CANBUS for you!

[Roder]

I have seen too many motorcycles operated by the least common denominator.

The ABS is great with me, as well as the linked brakes. I prefer airbags in my car too. If you want simple, better go waaay back to the old air cooled boxer you can fix with a welder and a sledgehammer. No CANBUS for you!

Why do you think people like you should impose their opinion on people who disagree or prefer something else?

I don't care what the statistics are showing, many statistics are manipulated to convince the population one way or the other, most of the time when profits are involved. My dealer told me that he can order me a bike and requests to delete the ABS option, but I still have to pay the price sticker of a bike that is sold with the ABS and TC package because that's the way they are sold now. And no bike for 2011 - R1200R was sold without ABS in the US because this is what the public wants. Again I don't care what the public wants or the majority wants, the majority is not always right and I have many examples to show you that if needed, so the question here is not how safe or not safe a bike with ABS is, but what the consumer's individual needs are and again there are many situations when a motorcycle ABS is needed and many other when the presence of ABS is actually unsafe to have.

So don't bring me this BS that I have to go and buy 30 years old bike if I don't want the extra cost and complexity of systems that I do not need on MY bike, when it comes to your bike that's your business.

[mogu83]

This isn't for professional motorcycle riders or the exceptionally talented rider. Just for us old duffers and a few young inexperienced guys that just want to get down the road without getting killed.

Interesting read: http://www.iihs.org/news/rss/pr111011.html

Maybe someone missed the above. I think it's been established (ad nauseum) that their are people on this list that have developed a high level of skill riding a motorcycle and they don't need the crutches that the rest of us need (want).

[websterize]

At the risk of poking the hornet's nest, these ABS ping-pong matches always remind me of this Isaac Asimov quote:

There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge'.

My bike has ABS and ASC and TPM — I need all the insurance I can get.

[famousperson]

Is there any way to safely disable the ABS? I'm not about to do it, just curious.