Quandary Regarding the Purchase of a 2010 R1200R

[mogu83]

I really shouldn't but ---
Chumley (no real name, age,type of bike or location given) it's obvious from your post that you are a highly skilled and talented rider,at least that's what your telling us. It seems that in your years of experience you have honed your riding skills to a level unmatched by most of the people on this list,or so you say. Most of us have been on this list for a while and the exchange of information and opinion has usually been cordial and beneficial (at least to me), their have been a few people that have come, and gone, that seemed to only be looking for an argument or to start a debate.
As a techie (I assume that's ipod,blogs,texting etc) I'm sure you understand that the internet is the worst place to have a debate, generally we state our likes or dislikes about something or pass on information about where to get some accessory or something new that is avaible for a R1200R. I don't know how that differs from the 'landscape' that you mention, it seems that's the way this list (R1200R) has been from day one.

BTW: Is your name Fred?

[Chumley]

E-mails and the internet are devoid of inflection. If mine were to have one it would be one of wonderment and curiosity. If you read my posts as if you were sitting there talking to someone you know and are not suspicious of then maybe it would be taken differently, sorry.

I believe that it was my opinion that was attacked that elicited my response.

Are people really reading the whole post before responding? This is part of a thread and must be read completely to understand in context. I said I had a 2010 Roadster with a touring package W/O ABS. I've ridden on the street for 35 years and I started early, that would leave me between 51 and 53 years of age (if you ride legally at 16). I believe I am average or maybe a bit above just based on the number of years riding, some racing backround (cars), and the fact that I constantly pursue improving my skills. That is as a routine BMW riding guy, not an H-D wobbler (just kidding, I ride with various Harley types too so please don't flame that).

I find it interesting that a certain few take this so seriously. If people were not targeting what I said in such a strange (completely inaccurate) manner I would never have responded. Why wasn't it just left at my 1st post? It was one man's opinion for God's sake.

I guess I just don't get it... The traffic is incredibly low compared to the "old days" when it was R1159R and this is winter. Maybe there is a reason, does this happen to everyone?

John

[deilenberger]

I am one that belongs to a group of people, that must be rather unrepresented here, that believes that technology should not obviate skills.

Well GOOD for you!

I'm one that belongs to a group of people, who aren't unrepresented here that believe that good technology can sometimes make up for bad luck. And no amount of training or skill is going to obviate bad luck.

Rubber side down eh?

[Jed]

Well, I for one am sold!

I tried to resist but the shear force of your impeccably reasoned arguments has me completely convinced now. Any technology that can make presumably reasonable men take the words of another completely out of context, eschew skills development, skewer a new member, belittle someone for having an opinion and attack any non-ABS zealot whether real or imagined - all in one thread - is something I've got to have in my kit!! I feel like such a fool for having expected some kind of ridiculous "esprit du corp" or open-mindedness among R12R owners or BMW riders. Now I understand - it's about the ABS (us) vs non-ABS (them) distinction. Thanks guys for setting me straight.

PS Where can I unload a 2010, barely broken in @ 12K, "Touring Edition" R12R death-trap in perfect (but fatally non-ABS) condition?

[TAG-Caver]

Well, I for one am sold!

I tried to resist but the shear force of your impeccably reasoned arguments has me completely convinced now. Any technology that can make presumably reasonable men take the words of another completely out of context, eschew skills development, skewer a new member, belittle someone for having an opinion and attack any non-ABS zealot whether real or imagined - all in one thread - is something I've got to have in my kit!! I feel like such a fool for having expected some kind of ridiculous "esprit du corp" or open-mindedness among R12R owners or BMW riders. Now I understand - it's about the ABS (us) vs non-ABS (them) distinction. Thanks guys for setting me straight.

PS Where can I unload a 2010, barely broken in @ 12K, "Touring Edition" R12R death-trap in perfect (but fatally non-ABS) condition?

Yes Jed, yet another ABS/non-ABS thread that quickly deteriorates into oral flatulence. On this board it's as predictable as the sun rising in the morning. You have to look at it in the context of entertainment.

[Jed]

Yes Jed, yet another ABS/non-ABS thread that quickly deteriorates into oral flatulence. On this board it's as predictable as the sun rising in the morning. You have to look at it in the context of entertainment.

LOL . . . Somehow I missed that part during the board orientation training . . . . I must have been day-dreaming. Typical !

Cheers!

[sky_sailor]

Well, I for one am sold!
PS Where can I unload a 2010, barely broken in @ 12K, "Touring Edition" R12R death-trap in perfect (but fatally non-ABS) condition?

Well Jed, since I ride in the hinterland of North Western Ontario (read, no LA rush hour traffic) I'd be more than happy to consider giving that "death-trap" a good home for the right price. While, admittedly no Kenny Roberts, I have managed to keep non-ABS bikes right side up since the late '60's. I just might survive our short, traffic free summers on such a ill-equiped contraption.
Lyle

[LumpyCam]

Riding motorcycles is awesome.

[websterize]

And spring is almost here.

[bmwk100]

All this acrimony and Ricco the original poster has never responded back. Ride on!

[mogu83]

All this acrimony and Ricco the original poster has never responded back. Ride on!

I think he went here: http://www.st-owners.com/forums/index.php

[fastdogs2]

I also had the same thoughts about the original poster not coming back to the forum. There are some points in his question about a potential bike, contrasted with his intended riding purposes for the bike and his medical conditions that appear to be inconsistent with his riding expectations and the limitations of his health.

He originally stated:

"My local BMW dealer has a 2010 R1200 R with touring package for $13,290. I'm also looking at a 2010 Honda ST1300 in which the dealer wants $14385.

I have owned BMWs in the past (R100RT, K1100 RT, RS 1100, and a GS1150). I've also owned a Honda ST1100. I'm looking for something that will eat up Interstate miles and would be comfortable enough to do a 1000 mile Iron Butt ride."

Then he tells us:

"The problem I'm having is not when the bike is traveling. It's muscling it around when stopped, or just moving it around using my legs. I've had a back injury, it's not continual, but occasionally flairs up. In addition to just being diagnosed with type two diabetes."

I was just diagnosed with type two diabetes and I have been very careful about monitoring my blood sugar, diet and exercise to control the condition. Just my personal opinion, but I don't think that the riding conditions encountered in a 1,000 mile Iron Butt ride would be optimal for managing your type two diabetes. You would need to be on the bike for a long time, without access to adequate nutrition or exercise. I have done all day rides of 300 miles, but I am careful to eat appropriately and monitor my blood sugar. I exercise, either prior to starting the ride or when I check into the motel after my ride. That regimen takes time, which you don't have, when racing to complete 1,000 miles.

The other medical condition Ricco mentions, a back injury, would also seem to be aggravated by the demands of a 1,000 mile Iron Butt ride. I guess everyone's tolerance for pain or possible future complications is different, but I don't think I would tempt fate, if I had a back injury, by subjecting myself to a 1,000 mile ride.

I hope Ricco finds the bike that suits him, but in my opinion, with the two conditions he mentions he is afflicted with, I would downgrade my expectations and riding demands.

Bill

[ka5ysy]

Now, about the choice of oil .........

[boxermoose]

Now, about the choice of oil .........

and windshield.......

[deilenberger]

I was just diagnosed with type two diabetes and I have been very careful about monitoring my blood sugar, diet and exercise to control the condition. Just my personal opinion, but I don't think that the riding conditions encountered in a 1,000 mile Iron Butt ride would be optimal for managing your type two diabetes. You would need to be on the bike for a long time, without access to adequate nutrition or exercise. I have done all day rides of 300 miles, but I am careful to eat appropriately and monitor my blood sugar. I exercise, either prior to starting the ride or when I check into the motel after my ride. That regimen takes time, which you don't have, when racing to complete 1,000 miles.

Bill - don't let it stop you from doing what you want.

FWIW: A good friend (and local club member) John Ryan currently holds almost all the significant IronButt records - including the Prudhoe-Bay to Key-West (86 hours, 31 minutes) ride. He holds almost all the coast-to-coast records, plus he's come up with his own challenges (such as 1,000 miles/24 hours within the confines of a city, like WDC, Manhattan, etc..) John has been a Type-1 diabetic since he was 15 years old. The trick to the 1,000 mile rides (or longer) is - don't do them as a "race".. and planning and strategy.

http://tomwade.me/motorcycles/johnryan/ <-- not my website, but an interesting writeup about John.

[deilenberger]

Now, about the choice of oil .........

and windshield.......

And seat...

[ContraMoto]

Not looking to fan any flames, or even take a position (I'll never do that again), but just wanted to point out something we in the analysis trade call "survivorship bias" in a sample set:

"...I have managed to keep non-ABS bikes right side up since ..."

Let's gather a large sample set (hundreds) of longtime riders in a room. Ask this question:

"Would everyone who has ever had a fatal crash due to not wearing a helmet please raise you hand?"

If no hands are raised, can we conclude that helmets are not really needed?

[AncientMariner]

Well put, ContraMoto.

FWIW Both of the 2010 R1200 R's that I've bought were "Touring Packages." Both came with ABS. ABS works really well and is definitely worth the price. However, it doesn't help with edge traps, which can be fatal to your bike.

Bruce

[Chumley]

As one esteemed member said, "I really shouldn't but..."

From the posts in this thread I don't see a distinct majority of members being pro or anti ABS. However, fom this thread I think it is safe to say that those in favor are so fanatical that meaning becomes contorted, personal opinion is pilloried and personal attacks take place. There is a recognizable trend by some to grasp at such obscure arguments and corollaries that my most immediate shock is that there are actually those that somehow embrace them. I can only conjure up the image of these folks frothing at the mouth and shaking, leaving a post mid-sentence and typing in a frenzy, flies circling their exposed frontal lobes. I don't normally believe in such affronts but I have been exposed to a different way. And you know what? It is kind of fun to just jettison respect and concern for the future. I just can't let go of reason and logic yet though. I'm sure that'll come in the next installment

There are those that show such an extreme insecurity that it is obvious that you really don't have the confidence to ride a motorcycle without ABS, even if you have the skills. My God don't, but could you find it in your big magnanimous hearts to let some of us make a mistake and do it? We shouldn't be a problem for long because we'll be dead. The majority of riders will be dead soon, I guess. Some riders have been riding for a long long time that would never be considered more than passive riders and some who are different and take a lot of risks, there are some in between. Those casting stones at riders for not needing ABS come from a place that is very new and limited. MOST MOTORCYCLES SOLD DO NOT HAVE ABS. Yes, people like you may now join that group that somehow dictates legislation so people like me don't have a choice someday. Isn't this how it starts? All because of your insecurities. I have been accused of somehwere stating that I posses superior skills. I never would have thought it before but now I think I do, in comparison to some here anyway. Google the terms "threshold braking" or "brake modulation" and tell me if you can comprende. I am sure you know that to use ABS properly you have to overcome these skills, right? You are aware of what I am talking about? Well of course you are because you know so much that you have told me what I must do and that I am an idiot since I don't, crazy really.

Those of you who fanatically support ABS may represent the majority on this board but if you leave this place you will find it different. I think you will find that peole are also much more open minded and respectful of other's opinions on other boards. Even at ADVRider, but then it is a much larger, and I am now going to assume, skilled rider set. There the argument is the quality of the ABS and how to remove it from a bike - people take it off - they are freaks! You should hook up with them so you can put their castaways on your tricycles. And they use four letter words and flip each other off. Macho poo like that, they're crazy, they take ABS off - wild!

WOW, you know what!?! I guess you guys are right. Just blow out post and and not worry about others... feels wierd but I'll get used to it... You'll teach me, right? I may get punted by the moderators but I'll come back in 6 months and let you read your posts at another time, could be sobering. Remember, your words live forever on the internet.

Now go and get out there and share your words of ABS reliance with the rest of the world. Just rmember where this place is because you may need somewhere to hide.

Oh crap, I forgot. I like ABS and have it on one bike in the garage right now. You guys got me confused now... I know I have to sell something because I WILL DIE IF I DON'T! Okay I'm going to install ABS on my bike. You know what it feels like and how it sounds when it kicks in right? Is it kind of a quick buzz noise, a little pulsing or what? Never mind, I'll start by getting a clothes pin and putting a playing card in my spokes. Crap, do you know where to get a clothes pin? Never mind I'll just close my eyes and pray - that's how it works, right? I feel better already. I can just sit back and know that if I hit some sand and a minivan comes screeching out I will deftly touch that brake lever, close my eyes and the angels will swoop down and hold my earthly body from harm. It is going to be soooo much easier now that I know skills have been COMPLETELY replaced by technology. Thank you all.

FWIW: I know most members are not the fanatics I speak of so forgive me, I'm just funnin'. Glad I didn't pay for a membership again (you see I donated money before there were membership fees because I cared about this place, but then it was a different place...).

If you enjoyed this thanks. If not and you are beet red go back and read this thread accurately. Boobs.

[mogu83]

Is that a Good-by??