Flashing Odometer

[boxerpaul]

Hi all,

My odometer has been flashing since about a month into ownership... a little over 2 years now. I live a few hours from my dealer and I do mine own maintenance, so I'm not there often. I've been there I think 2 times - once for break in service (I thought I'd get them to do that first one) and once to get an older brake recall done combined with asking them to fix the odometer again (they had attempted to fix it during the first visit, and failed). They failed again the second time, and were unsure of how to fix it. They kept the bike for hours trying all sorts of software updates etc. They keep promising to speak to BMW for a fix but have left me in the dark despite repeated queries. I'm going to try a different dealer but I thought if anyone had any info, it might help guide my interaction with the next dealer.

I'm wondering if anyone has encounted this problem before. It's only the main odometer that flashes (constant flashing) so I leave it on a trip meter most of the time. There is no service indicator on at the moment, since they were able to turn that off when it showed up. The bike otherwise demonstrates no glitches.

Thanks,
Paul

[deilenberger]

Just an odd question - you aren't running a headlight modulator? Ones that aren't CanBus compatible (for bulb monitoring) with flash the odometer (but display "LAMP" when they dim..)

If that's not the case - I'd suggest telling the dealer to order you a new instrument cluster under warranty. They aren't cheap if YOU have to replace one.

[boxerpaul]

Hi Don,

Thanks for the reply. I haven't touched the electronics at all on the bike, other than to replace the battery with an odyssey, and I only did that a few months ago.

So maybe it is time for an new instrument cluster then after all!
I remember one tech telling me something about how the computer and the ?odometer are both saying slightly different things for some reason, which has resulted in the flashing. I've probably remembered things a little differently than they were conveyed at the time, but that's as much as they could figure out.


Paul

[deilenberger]

On BMW cars - the mileage is stored in three places.. the odometer/speedo cluster, the LCM (Light Control Module) - and one other module that BMW won't tell people about. If any of those disagree with the others - an odometer tampering warning light comes on. Wonder if it's the same thing with the bikes, but they flash the odometer reading to tell you not to believe it. You can synch them up with the BMW computer to the highest reading mileage in the three units and have the warning light go out.

I'd still go after the dealer to fix it, including replacement. They should be able to do the same as far as sync'ing the two. If they claim ignorance - request they submit a PUMA case - which gets BMW techs from the mothership involved. You paid for a working odometer - not one that's flashing. It's their responsibility to give you what you paid for.

[celticus]

Forgive the hijack but I didn't want to start a new subject line but Don did you ever resolve the problem you had with your bike? Did the Techron do the trick?

Mark

[boxerpaul]

As a follow up, I tried calling another dealer (one that reportedly had better service) and was actually chastised by the service advisor. I explained that I wanted to bring in my bike for a recall and a warranty issue. He asked how many km on the bike, I told him 18K, he asked do I want to do the 20K service too, I told him no thanks, I will do it at home. His attitude changed then and he became a little defensive and without even knowing what my warranty issue was proceeded to lecture me about how BMW would likely not honor my warranty since I had been doing my own work.

Long story short, he said he'd check with BMW about whether the odometer would be covered or not, and to his credit did call me back shortly and said they'd have a look. If they deemed it completely unrelated to routine service stuff (which it is), then they would fix it. He said if I had an engine problem, though (or other mechanical issue at some point), I'd likely be out of luck, and holding the bag.

When scheduling an appointment, he said be there at 8:30 AM sharp. About that time I mentioned off hand that I'd be coming in from 3 hours away, and he got a bit pissy and suggested I take it to another dealer closer to me (there is a lousy dealer 2 hours away in the other direction). At this point in the interaction I just gave up, since it turned out that the day he had available was impossible for me to make due to work obligations.

I called my original dealer back and asked him if there were any updates. Essentially no. I asked him about replacing the instrument cluster, and he told me that that is a special order item keyed to my VIN, and they would only try that after more attempts at "tricking the odometer" into stopping the flashing, since they cost a lot and they would be stuck with that cost of it if it didn't work.

I have got to say, that I think this bike is great, but I will likely not ever buy another BMW bike, or maybe even BMW auto, since my interactions with BMW dealers have been the absolute worst consumer experience I've ever had.

Sorry to sound bitter, but this issue has been ongoing for more than 2 years now, and I don't see how these dealers stay in business treating customers like trash.

[boxermoose]

I've been away from the GWN for a while now - but my experience with dealers has been that Wolf BMW, out London way, has always been the best

Might be worth a ride out that way, or a phone call - Ian and Chris were always great to deal with - the last old school dealer in the area anyway

[deilenberger]

I have got to say, that I think this bike is great, but I will likely not ever buy another BMW bike, or maybe even BMW auto, since my interactions with BMW dealers have been the absolute worst consumer experience I've ever had.

Sorry to sound bitter, but this issue has been ongoing for more than 2 years now, and I don't see how these dealers stay in business treating customers like trash.

There should be a customer relations phone number in your owners handbook. I'd suggest calling it - and tell them without rancor the experience you've had trying to resolve this issue. Dunno if Canada has a "Lemon Law" like some US states do - or if it would apply to a bike - but if there is one, it sounds as if this might also be worth pursuing.

Did a Google: http://lawiscool.com/2008/09/14/motor-v ... in-canada/ - looks like Canada has a quite effective Lemon Law - AKA "Canadian Motor Vehicle Arbitration Plan"

[boxerpaul]

Thanks, Don. I think I will be calling the customer relations people. The rest of the bike is working well, so I would hate to have to do anything extreme with respect to lemon laws, but it's good to know that there are options.

Don, have you heard about this thing with the warranty being voided if a person does his own service? I thought these bikes were pitched as good for do-it-yourselfers.

Boxermoose, I have heard good things about Wolf BMW and I'd definitely get there if I could. It's about 5 hours away though, so it would take some doing for sure. They're supposed to be the best as far as Ontario is concerned.

[deilenberger]

Thanks, Don. I think I will be calling the customer relations people. The rest of the bike is working well, so I would hate to have to do anything extreme with respect to lemon laws, but it's good to know that there are options.

Don, have you heard about this thing with the warranty being voided if a person does his own service? I thought these bikes were pitched as good for do-it-yourselfers.

The Magnuson-Moss act in the US actually prohibits a manufacturer from requiring all service being done by them or their representatives/shops, unless they pay for it. And no - IMHO they would have to prove that work done wasn't of normal quality and was the cause of the failure. Not to say they wouldn't try.. but it sounds to me like this is a dealer to stay away from.

Boxermoose, I have heard good things about Wolf BMW and I'd definitely get there if I could. It's about 5 hours away though, so it would take some doing for sure. They're supposed to be the best as far as Ontario is concerned.

If it's a one time deal - make an adventure out of it.. plan a holiday around a visit to Wolf (or is it Wolfe?) I know when I bought parts from them (when the dollar was in our favor) - they were quite nice to deal with.

[boxerpaul]

The funny thing is, the dealer was almost acting like he would have preferred not to do the service at all. Maybe I'm way off base, but wouldn't it be in the dealer's best interest to try to work on my behalf to get BMW to cover issues, since they get paid either way?

I would love to make a trip of it to Wolf, and might just do that if I can get the timing right, work-wise.

[deilenberger]

The funny thing is, the dealer was almost acting like he would have preferred not to do the service at all. Maybe I'm way off base, but wouldn't it be in the dealer's best interest to try to work on my behalf to get BMW to cover issues, since they get paid either way?

Yes and no.. or no and yes. Dealers get paid set time amounts for every warranty job. A job requiring a lot of diagnosis time isn't profitable for them - they run over the allotted time, and BMW isn't happy with extending it. The time BMW allots is based on a master mechanic doing a job where everything goes right.

When they do customer work - they typically have a set time (book time) they charge for different jobs. If they beat the time - they make more money - the book time is quite generous. If they run over the time - sometimes they'll eat the difference, sometimes they come back to you for more $$ because of "problems".

If work is slow - warranty work is good for a dealer - it keeps the mechanics busy and makes a bit of money. If regular work is backed up, warranty repairs aren't that popular because it keeps them from doing the more profitable customer repairs.

I would love to make a trip of it to Wolf, and might just do that if I can get the timing right, work-wise.

Sounds like it could be an adventure..

[lewellen]

Thanks, Don. I think I will be calling the customer relations people. The rest of the bike is working well, so I would hate to have to do anything extreme with respect to lemon laws, but it's good to know that there are options.

At the risk of sounding like a jackass, given your experience I think I'd go for the lemon-law replacement ... and make sure *both* dealers know you are going to take that route.

The rest of the bike might be just fine. So what? That doesn't change the fact that there is a fault with one of the most important pieces of equipment on it and the dealers cannot, will not, or refuse to fix it. Both of the ones nearest to you have demonstrated that they don't care about their customers (or at least, one of them), and that will probably continue to be the case until enough people start generating repercussions. I doubt BMW corporate would be happy to hear that they had to replace a $15,000 motorcycle due to a flashing odometer ... or, more precisely, one of their dealer's unwillingness to deal with same.

Sorry ... I've spent the past few weeks dealing with intransigent idiots at work who are supposed to be helping my research team, not getting in their way; so I'm generally trending towards a more vicious attitude towards problem resolution. :-/ But I do think a threatened lemon-law case could act as a bigger hammer, and it sounds like neither place will move off BDC unless you go get one to whack them with.

Good roads,

- Lewellen

[boxermoose]

Thanks, Don. I think I will be calling the customer relations people. The rest of the bike is working well, so I would hate to have to do anything extreme with respect to lemon laws, but it's good to know that there are options.

At the risk of sounding like a jackass, given your experience I think I'd go for the lemon-law replacement ... and make sure *both* dealers know you are going to take that route.


- Lewellen

Canadian laws are a bit different - and regardless - don't the US lemon laws only apply if the bike is out of operation and held at the dealer for a specific amount of time?

[deilenberger]

Canadian laws are a bit different - and regardless - don't the US lemon laws only apply if the bike is out of operation and held at the dealer for a specific amount of time?

They wouldn't apply to the OP - he's in Canada. And US lemon laws are by the state - there is no federal lemon law.. and the state ones vary all over the place. Some specifically exclude motorcycles.. Some require replacement/refund if the vehicle is taken to the dealer for the same problem 3x in a certain period of time, and that can be a fairly trivial problem (someone on another BMW forum - car forum - bought a CPO car from BMW that had been returned under a lemon-law due to the radio not turning off correctly.. dealer didn't fix it in X times the law required, guy got his money back and BMW got the car back.)

Best bet if you have a question is Google - "lemon law" yourstate..

[boxerpaul]

Update:
Well I brought the bike back in for service for the brake recall and for another attempt at fixing the flashing. They got it to stop. Apparently the latest software update was installed into the bike's computer and it rectified the problem. They claim it was a miscommunication between the odometer and the computer; my understanding is that there was something like a 1 km difference between the two, causing the error. They can't explain why this occurred in the first place, or how the software update corrected it (2 previous updates failed to do this). I didn't known BMW kept pumping out software updates for these bikes... I wonder if that means we'll all have to periodically bring our machines in every few years even though we do our own maintenance?

I'm really happy it has stopped winking at me! I've asked them what happens if the problem surfaces again after the warranty is up, and the answer is noncommittal... I'm sure I'll be holding the bag somehow, but fingers crossed this never recurs.

They also replaced my ring antenna, again.... I had already had the "correct" antenna (-247 I think) installed a long time ago, so I'm not sure what that was about, and they didn't have an answer for that either. Well, I'm not complaining, a fresh new antenna never hurt anyone (-247 again, I think).

[Kieran R1200R]

Which mungral BMW dealer did the job, the 2 hour ride or the 3 hour ride?
Also what changed there attitude?
Curious!!!

[me&mybmw]

I too would like to know what dealer responded, as I live near Peterborough, Ontario. My nearest is Ajax. I have been told that Newmarket has a good one, I'm new to all this, bought my RT private, but had just came out of Wolf. And yes I am having the time of my life, I have been told that I am having a mid life crisis, my reply?......define my mid life first.

[deilenberger]

I think I would have asked them for the old EWS antenna they took out as a spare..

I'm sure the flashing odometer was a tamper warning due to the two mileage storage positions (instrument cluster and the engine module) not agreeing. On the cars there is a process to sync them (need a dealer computer to do it) - it sets which ever one is higher to both. Since they both come from the same source, there is never any reason logically for them to vary.. except tampering, or someone screwing up something when doing a computer update.

[boxerpaul]

You're right, Don, that would have been a good idea to take the old antenna as a spare.

The dealer I took it to was the original dealer, the one I bought the bike from (BMW Toronto). They are also the ones I've had it to each time to try to fix this thing before. I decided to stick with them after the negative interaction I had with a second dealer.
Incidentally, the service advisor at Toronto is no longer the same guy I've been dealing with for years. THANK HEAVENS.

The one that is 2 hours away has a bad reputation. I've been in to look at bikes and pick up an oil filter, but that's been the extent of my interaction with them. They're a multi line dealer.

I was originally set to buy my bike from the guys in Ajax (at the time it was BMW Durham) but the sales manager didn't seem willing to negotiate on price, so I next tried BMW Toronto. The salesman there was intitially great, and I was able to get about $1000 off the price. In retrospect, I would have just stuck with Durham. I won't go into all the details, since it's really long story, but I actually intitially ordered a GS! I ended up taking an R because it was in stock and I was tired of being jerked around for 3 months by the dealer while waiting for my GS, which was "going to be here next week" for the 10th time.

Glad I got the R!!

I've heard a couple of negative comments about the dealer in Newmarket, but I've never been there myself. It seems Wolf BMW is probably our best bet in Ontario.