New BMW R120CS - a dream come true...hopefully!

Topics related to the ownership, maintenance, equipping, operation, and riding of the R1200R.

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Boxer-Lust
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New BMW R120CS - a dream come true...hopefully!

Post by Boxer-Lust »

I don't know how to post the picture directly but you can see it and a text (in german) under;
http://www.motorradonline.de/de/heft/ar ... -cs/280362
It was published in german Motorrad and drew an enthusiastic reaction.
The best of both worlds.Modern like the R1200R with the classic looks of the iconic R90S :!: What is not to love :?:
The only question if the telelever should be sacrificed for the more traditional looking fork?
Or if I want mine rather in black than in daytona-orange... :lol:
Hope they build it :!:
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Re: New BMW R120CS - a dream come true...hopefully!

Post by Kieran R1200R »

http://www.fotosymotos.com/fotos/index-en.html#R1200R

I don't know how to post a link but if you go to the link above and scroll down to the BMW bikes you can see some very tricked up bikes.!

What you know it worked!!
boxerpaul
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Re: New BMW R120CS - a dream come true...hopefully!

Post by boxerpaul »

That looks great! I wonder if it could possibly be a successor to the R12R? We still haven't heard about the 2011 model...... :)
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Boxer-Lust
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Re: New BMW R120CS - a dream come true...hopefully!

Post by Boxer-Lust »

For 2011 the R1200R is getting the DOHC heads and maybe little cosmetic changes a la 2010 vs 2009 R1200RT...
The real question is if they come up with a second version with a fairing/lower bars as a R1200R/S to have a true sport-touring boxer again to replace R1100S/RS and R1200S/ST... :?: :!:
The "R120CS" would be a great going away present to celebrate 90 years of aircooled boxers in 2013...hopefully :!:
Sander Abernathy
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Re: New BMW R120CS - a dream come true...hopefully!

Post by Sander Abernathy »

boxerpaul wrote:That looks great! I wonder if it could possibly be a successor to the R12R? We still haven't heard about the 2011 model...... :)
A successor? You are kidding right? I really don't think they are going to abandon a bike with modern geometry, performance and styling cues for a knock-off of a 35 year old design with two rear shocks, a bench seat and spoked wheels. Look at the gas tank in the drawing compared to the R1200R. The R90 gas tank and the one pictured was nice in its day but the R1200R's tank is far superior both functionally and asthetically.

Modern naked bikes such as the Monster and Speed Triple are pretty successful en masse. Ducati and Triumph would be dead without those bikes. (Actually Triumph was dead). Modern retro bikes such as the GT1000 and Thruxton are successful niche bikes. A major manufacturer may add a niche bike such as the GT1000, Thruxton or R120 to their line-up but they don't abandon production of modern bikes that produce higher volume and start producing a 100% retro line-up. Retro bikes may produce sales but they rarely produce positive cash flow over their life cycle and you can't build a company on products that don't produce positive cash flow.

Some buyers shop for a retro look but not many.

This is particularly true of BMW which realizes that customer mortality is the greatest threat to its revenue line and market share. If anything, BMW has an aversion to retro and is investing heavily in dropping its image as "your grandfather's motorcycle". BMW has seen the writing on the wall and they have responded: parallel twins, in-line fours, an in-line six, asymetric styling, and bleeding edge technology suited only to track, sport and high-performance riding.

In the 1980's, BMW tried a New Coke move. They announced the K-bike flying brick and the planned discontinuation of the boxer. It even produced a commemorative "final boxer" before customers revolted. Today, BMW recognizes it has a very loyal following that loves its bikes for certain reasons. Some love the GS, some love boxers, some love german engineering, some love exclusivity that comes with intentionally charging a higher price for the product than competitors without product features that justify the premium, some love Ewan McGregor. The list is long.

The company isn't going to abandon those loyal customers. It's merely going to dilute them with younger customers who are attracted by offerings other than the boxer. Where have the R&D dollars gone lately? The S1000RR, the K1600, F800 and a distant last in line for R&D and product development is the R1200. What is the stalest bike in the lineup? The R series. The F series and K series have been completely revamped since the R series was updated to the R1200 and the S1000RR didn't exist then, yet the F, K and S are all undergoing development at a much faster rate. For example, since the hexhead introduction, the K1200 became the K1300 which will soon become the K1600 and there's not a whisper about a new R series.

On a positive note, why wait for BMW to come out with a modern retro of the R90S? The R1200 engine is smaller and lighter than the R90 engine. Most of the current technology can also be retrofit to any frame. Why not just do an engine swap? Keep the final drive off the R1200R, keep the swingarm from the R90 and get a drive shaft cut to length to make it all fit together. The alternative is to recreate the Wunderlich R1200R based replica. They have a complete list of bolt-on parts and all that is missing is a paint job.
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Boxer-Lust
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Re: New BMW R120CS - a dream come true...hopefully!

Post by Boxer-Lust »

The R1200R gets the DOHC heads for 2011 and maybe a little like the RT got for 2010...
The R120CS is a totally modern bike that has the timeless beautiful and iconic looks of the R90S...It would be build on a Megamoto frame looking more traditional or based on the R1200R with the telelever...
2 pipes for classic looks but probably monolever.
Totally modern like the Mini of today.
I think they would sell a ton of those especially when in 2013 the new generation of watercooled boxers see the daylight...
A nice way to celebrate 90 years of aircooled boxers for sure... :!:
To put the Wunderlich fairing on the R is great.But the R120CS with wire wheels,the fairing,tank,seat combo,exhaust,nice looking valve covers and probably instruments,too would be the real thing... :badgrin:
Much more exciting with a much longer shelf life than the S1000RR... :lol:
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Re: New BMW R120CS - a dream come true...hopefully!

Post by sweatmark »

Hexhead motor transplanted into airhead frame:

Image

Wish I could remember the source of this photo and accompanying "retrofit" BMWs. My favorite was a streetfighter built from R1100 drivetrain, K75 frame, and sportsbike wheels/front end.
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Sander Abernathy
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Re: New BMW R120CS - a dream come true...hopefully!

Post by Sander Abernathy »

sweatmark wrote:Hexhead motor transplanted into airhead frame:

Image

Wish I could remember the source of this photo and accompanying "retrofit" BMWs.
You are one cold-hearted SOB to post that picture and say "Wish I could remember the source..." That's just wrong. I'll be up all night looking for it. That's a great find though and I must have that seat.
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sweatmark
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Re: New BMW R120CS - a dream come true...hopefully!

Post by sweatmark »

Hey, it's no BS, SA - I grabbed a bunch of pics from somewhere long ago, and cannot remember the origin, nor anything about the builder of these BMW boxer mix & match bikes. Trust me, I've googled my fingers numb trying to find the website, with hopes of seeing more examples of the "heart transplant" projects.

Just plopped some of the pics into a new album in case you're interested:
http://s74.photobucket.com/albums/i269/ ... 20Projekt/

My favorite - as I've already mentioned - is the yellow streetfighter with K75 frame. Would love to create something similar, using Oliver's R1100 motor build specs as basis.

If anyone knows where more can be learned about these machines, then please post here.
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Sander Abernathy
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Re: New BMW R120CS - a dream come true...hopefully!

Post by Sander Abernathy »

I'm with you on the yellow bike versus the red. The oilhead and hexhead engines are designed to serve as stressed members of the bike and in the airhead frame it is obviously not serving that purpose. It looks a bit silly sitting in the cradle like that. Especially with the gigantic sump below the cradle.

On the K-bike frame the engine appears to be suspended from the upper portion of the frame which is more in line with the designer's plan for the engine in my opinion.

I realize I'm a bit inconsistent in that I'm not wild about the R120CS concept but I really like the cafe racers such as the Lo Rider, Le Rider and the pictures you posted. The truth is I think bikes built from the early to mid 1970's to the mid to late 1980's just weren't attractive at all and the R90S falls into that category. There are some beautiful period correct examples of those bikes but I just don't find the design appealling enough to incorporate it into a new retro classic. A retro Mini based on the 1970's car is very appealing. A retro Civic based on the 1970's car definitely is not.

I like retro classics by the way. I would have bought a Thruxton if it had ABS. Another retro that I am looking forward to seeing is the Norton Commando that is coming out in the next couple of months. The taillight on that bike is the most beautiful thing on any motorcycle, anywhere and the rest of the bike is great also.
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sweatmark
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Re: New BMW R120CS - a dream come true...hopefully!

Post by sweatmark »

I'm with you on the yellow bike versus the red. The oilhead and hexhead engines are designed to serve as stressed members of the bike and in the airhead frame it is obviously not serving that purpose. It looks a bit silly sitting in the cradle like that. Especially with the gigantic sump below the cradle.

On the K-bike frame the engine appears to be suspended from the upper portion of the frame which is more in line with the designer's plan for the engine in my opinion.
Agreed.

For aesthetic value, I think the original R1100R is "purer" in its design integrity than any other modern BMW boxer. More in keeping with the K-bike's modular drivetrain idea, load-bearing primary structure with subframes attached, with the original oilhead able to take things a step further a la Telelever. Oliver's bike is the prime example, with the configuration purified via oil cooler change, aftermarket exhaust. (Hope he's reading this for well-deserved praise.)

Yep, that yellow bike's got appeal. Guess what? Seems I've got an appropriate front end (triple, forks, wheel, brakes) stashed away in the garage for just such a project! Gotta put together a shopping list...

BTW, I think those tails/seats are 90s Ducati units.
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