Leaking gas....

[dbluefish]

Well, proud owner of a 2004 R 1150 RT for three days now, and so far it meets my expectations. No trips, just local by ways and high ways but I think it is a keeper.

Today, put it on the center stand and went and had lunch and when i came out(I was at home and bike in the garage), smell of gas, and a puddle under the bike. Backed it out, engine off, started it (ok if i burn up but don't want to burn the house)and to the dealer who sold it to me. Immediate response was it was the fuel disconnect!

So left it and came home and went to this site and did a search. There was some discussion on these disconnects. It would appear that this disconnect is plastic(to keep the bike's weight down?)and they can fail. So they are replacing it with the chrome plated steel. Bummer as I was surprised at such a small part making such a problem.

Anyway, always nice to find my problem may have been your(collectively)problem and what the fix might be.

Tomorrow back to just riding and getting the feel for the bike. Not a whole lot different from my K75 RT except the K75 might have been smoother.

Great board, so great I am now a life member!

paul
Tallahassee, FL

[rdsmith3]

It must have been an (ill-advised) cost cutting measure. They all fail at some point. Mine did.

Welcome, and sorry for this sudden problem. It is a great bike, though.

[towerworker]

You would be hard pressed to find someone who has not had the QD's fail. I'm sure there must be some out there but their numbers are small I'm sure. Just a weak point in the overall design. But it's an easy and relatively inexpensive fix. Welcome to the board!!

Wayne

[Dr. Strangelove]

of the places from which gas could possibly leak, the QDs are BY FAR the most likely and the most user friendly. Actually you're a bit lucky that it happened so soon and you could bring it right back to the dealer to repair.

[Boxer]

My QDs never failed. But I must confess I preemptively replaced them when everyone else's started breaking. The MOST likely cause of fuel leaks are those pesky BMW OEM hose clamps...The QDs being a close second.

[BoxerSteve]

Mine failed and leaked gas all over my transmission, permanently staining it. I wish I would have known to change it before it failed!

[jfslater98]

When you replace the QD's, or even disconnect to remove the tank, the little o-rings can cause a problem too. Mine did this week. Hard to believe such a tiny little thing could cause a problem. A minute little chunk of that o-ring was picked off somehow, and it caused a leak. Not a gusher, but a noticeable leak. Replaced the ring, and it's nice and dry.

Click on the pic below, to zoom in on the full size picture.

[dbluefish]

Well the dealer replaced the POS QR and put in the one that should have been there in the beginning. No leaks now. Glad I have the RT as I cannot see any staining that might have been done. Pisser was I had just filled the tank and the bike was left in the shop overnight and all 6 + gallons leaked all over their floor! Better than mine!

They gave me a few gallons and off i went so tomorrow I will get to have a bit of a shakedown run of around 200 miles to a great oyster bar for my favorite broiled oysters with cheddar, jalapenos and hot sauce! Fitting place to celebrate my now healthy RT.

Thanks for everyone's ideas.

paul

[Sunbeemer]

Glad you're underway again. Good move getting the metal QD's. Doesn't hurt to lube those o-rings before reassembly, like jfslater98 said, all it takes is a small nick to make a big leak.

Go get those oysters before the oil does...

[b12bandit]

Mine's leaking fuel too. Especially when starting from cold, with the choke on. Petrol pours from under the tank on the right hand side.

I guess my 'QD's' have failed as well?

Dumbass question time;

What is a QD?
Where are they on the bike? Pictures if possible please.
Is it an easy fix? I'm mechanically and technically USELESS.
Where can I buy the stainless steel replacements? Part numbers? Cost? Available in UK?

Sorry to be so dumb. We all have different skills and talents. Working on motorcycles IS NOT one of mine!

CHEERS

PETE
SHEFFORD
BEDS
UK

[rdsmith3]

QD = Quick Disconnect. When you take off your gas tank, e.g., to replace the battery, you have to disconnect the fuel lines. QD's are an "easy" way for doing that. However, because they're plastic, and cheap, they eventually crack and leak. The other problem is the little O rings can break, and you'll get a fuel leak. They should be replaced with metal ones.

This picture shows white plastic ones. Your bike may have black plastic ones.

[b12bandit]

Bob,

Thanks for that. Shame you're not in UK - I'd buy you a beer!

[challey]

Pete asked:

What is a QD?
Where are they on the bike? Pictures if possible please.
Is it an easy fix? I'm mechanically and technically USELESS.
Where can I buy the stainless steel replacements? Part numbers? Cost? Available in UK?

QD = Quick Disconnect. The ones refered to are in the fuel lines (supply and return) and are meant to allow you to disconnect the lines easily in order to remove the fuel tank. BMW supplied inexepensive plastic ones as original equipment - they deteriorate very quickly and become brittle or crack, causing fuel to leak. There are really only 3 outcomes possible with the factory QDs:
1) You're in luck! The leak is just a drizzle and happened in your garage, thus allowing you the luxury of time and access to the proper tools to get it repaired.
2) You're have apparent bad luck! The QD breaks off while you are hurtling down a particularly nice stretch of A road in the lake district, pouring gasoline (er, petrol) over your engine, trousers and shoes and stranding you 5 miles east of Snittlegarth. The AA come and transport you and the bike to the BMW dealer in Keswick, who replaces the QDs and gets you back on the road quickly.
3) You're SOL! Everything in #2 happens except that this time the fuel is ignited when it contacts the hot exhaust pipes. While you escape serious injury, the resulting conflagration destroys your Beakster. On the plus side, your mishap provides the biggest story of the past 50 years for the local weekly newspaper, the Snittlegarth Spectator.

Luckily, it is fairly easy to avoid any of the above scenaria. The QDs are located on the right side of the bike, just underneath the fuel tank. They are partially obscured by a black plastic shroud but you should be able to see them. You can easily remove the shroud (only one screw involved) if you have trouble seeing them. You may not need to remove the fuel tank to replace the QDs (I didn't) if you don't have much fuel in the tank. All that's needed is to disconnect the couplings (have a small basin of some sort available to catch any fuel), then cut or twist off the Oeticker hose clamps (crimped) to be able to pull the QDs off. The supply and return lines require the QDs for each to face in the proper direction, so mark the lines before removing the QDs. You will obviously need a pair of replacement QDs - I haven't seen them in SS but you can get chrome plated brass ones from BeemerBoneyard http://www.beemerboneyard.com/fuliqudise.html. These are sold a kit that includes FI-type hose clamps to replace the ones you cut off. I'm pretty sure that they will ship to the UK but if not, you can order from Omega Engineering (who I believe have a subsidiary in England - you can check their website at http://www.omega.com/. The Omega part number you need are: Qty 2 FT-LCD170-05 Brass Coupling Bodies (inline) and Qty 2 FT-LCD220-05 Brass Coupling Insert (straight). You should carefully inspect the fuel hose and if it's brittle or cracking, replace it at the same time. I believe the hose is 8mmX13mm (5/16" will also work, I think). Make sure you use fuel-injection fuel line, which is fairly pricey but you only need a small length. This (and the clamps if you need them) should be available at an auto parts store like Halfords. The total cost for all the parts should be pretty modest - I'd guess no more than about £70. One small caution: Use care when connecting to the hoses that dissappear into then engine (at the distal ends of the QD/fuel lines). They are shiney black things that look like plastic but are really vinyl-covered very thin gauge metal tubing and very easy to bend if you use a lot of elbow grease. Be careful or you will wind up shelling out many more £'s than mentioned above.

A quick search on this board will provide pictures and a wealth of other information. If you can't locate any, PM me and I will send you some pictures (I'm at work and don't have access to them right now). This is an easy fix and I'm sure you can do it.

Charlie

[b12bandit]

Charlie,

You're also on my list of 'people I must buy beer for'.

Thanks.

[challey]

Careful there Pete - I'm a CAMRA member . . .

[KiwiRR]

B12b - I recently had the beemer boneyard disconnects fitted which solved the leaking disconnect problem, however I also had a loose fuel hose clamp from the tank (the original OEM crimp clamps) which I discovered after the new disconnects were fitted! The leak was always worst on start up. Good to check these clamps at the same time - my problem is now sorted and even by getting the BMW dealer to do the fix was not that expensive.

[b12bandit]

Kiwi,

Thanks. You're on the beer list......

[garr2]

I would encourage you to have a go at replacing the QDs. It's pretty straight forward.
Below are the steps I followed in replacing mine earlier in the year - unfortunately I didn't take any pictures.

My preventative maintenance mission was to replace the OEM plastic quick disconnects(QDs) with metal ones. Some QD replacement posts I have read involve cutting the fuel line to remove the clamps. Because I did not intend replacing the fuel lines I aimed to avoid butchering them in the process. Consequently I chose the ‘screw driver method’ to loosen the clamps.

After reading all the quick disconnects forums I could find and having now actually replaced them myself my instructions for their replacement would be -
Parts/Equipment/Tools
* 1 set of chrome-plated brass QDs and fuel injetion fuel line clamps from Beemerboneyard
* vice grips (for crimping fuel line)
* small screwdriver (for loosening OEM crimped hose clamp and helping remove fuel line from stepped end of OEM plastic QD)
* rags (for mopping up inadvertent fuel spills)
* pliers
* silicon lubricant (for new QD o-rings)
Inspection
Before commencing the replacement take time to have a look at (and feel) the existing QDs and fuel lines.
Notice that one fuel line has the male end closest to the fuel tank while the other has the female end closest.
When you replace each QD maintain this configuration.
The fuel lines on the throttle body side of the QD have a section which obviously has a metal insert so they won’t crimp as they do a 90 degree bend. Don’t bend that section of the fuel line when you wrestle with removing the old QDs.
The location of the QDs is close to throttle bodies, injectors and throttle cable. Remember this as you wrestle.
Steps
1) Work on one fuel line at a time (it doesn’t matter which one you start with). This ensures that you install the new QDs in the same configuration as the original and you only need 1 set of vice grips.
Press the tab on the plastic QD and pull the two ends apart. You can now see the male and female ends of the old QD
2) Use a small flat bladed screw driver to prise open the crimped section of the clamp that holds the fuel line onto the QD. Hold the QD with pliers as you wrestle with this operation. When the crimped band is sufficiently loose slide it off the collar that is underneath it, then slide the collar down the fuel line away from the QD
3) If you have chosen to work on the end of the fuel line closest to the fuel tank you will now need to use the vice grips to crimp the fuel line to avoid a fuel spill. Position the vice grips some way up the fuel line and above the clamp you have slid away from the QD (otherwise you will have to release the vice grips to later remove the clamp – which means that fuel will start flowing down the fuel line). Place some soft material between the jaws of the vice grips to avoid damaging the fuel line.
Use a small flat bladed screwdriver to get between the fuel line and the stepped end of the plastic QD. Work the screwdriver all the way around the circumference of the fuel line and QD. This won’t loosen it to the point where it will slide off but helps break the seal between the fuel line and QD. Grip the QD with pliers and alternating between using the screw driver between the QD and fuel line, and a turning/pulling motion on the fuel line remove the fuel line from the stepped end of the QD. This method is not exactly poetry in motion, does require the use of some muscle and does not give instant success - but it does work. Now that you’ve removed the plastic QD, check the inside the fuel line for cracks or other damage and replace with fuel injection rated fuel line if necessary. I didn’t need to replace mine. Slide the old clamp off the fuel line.
4) Slide the new fuel injection rated clamp onto the fuel line. Fit the new QD end onto the fuel line making sure it is the equivalent part to the one you just removed (if you removed a male end replace it with a male end). Slide the clamp down over the stepped end of the QD and tighten it. As you do this give some thought to where the sharp corners of the clamp will sit when the whole job is complete and the fuel lines returned to their usual position. You don’t want these sharp corners rubbing against anything that could be damaged – like the other fuel line! If you needed to use the vice grips to crimp the fuel line you can now remove them.
5) Now do the other separated end of the same fuel line using the same procedure. If you are now working on the throttle body end of the fuel line you will not need to crimp the fuel line with the vice grips but everything else is the same. Once you fitted both sides of the new QD to the fuel line, lubricate the o-ring on the male side with silicone grease (or saliva if that’s all you’ve got) – this avoids damaging/displacing the o-ring when you push the male and female ends together. Even though I didn’t push the two ends together at this point, I lubricated the o-ring now just in case I forgot when I connected them later on.
That’s the QD on one fuel line replaced, now follow the same procedure for the other one.
6) Now that the QDs on both fuel lines have been replaced, and the o-rings lubricated push the male and female ends together (you should hear a satisfying click) and reposition the fuel lines back into their usual position. Check to see that any sharp edges of the newly fitted clamps are not going to be rubbing against anything else – like the other fuel line!
7) Check that both QDs are fitted firmly together. Start the bike - which starts the fuel pump feeding fuel under pressure through the fuel lines. Check for any fuel leaks around the QDs .

PS Save the old QDs (hopefully at least one of the 4 ends is still useable after wrestling to remove them).
I have fitted a metre length of old spare fuel line to one of the four old QD ends. If in future I need to drain the fuel tank before removing it (eg to replace the fuel filter) I can separate the QD on one of the bike’s fuel lines, connect the old QD to the petrol tank end of the fuel line and empty the contents of the tank into a fuel container.

[b12bandit]

garr2,

Noted. thanks. Sounds very complicated and I'm afraid I've chickened out of even attempting it. My friend Stewart, the police bike mechanic, has agreed to do the job.

Thanks for the advice anyway. I'm sure if I attempted it, something would go wrong and the BMW is the only bike I've got. I have no 'back up'.

To give you some idea of how mechanically incompetent I am - I once drilled through a gas pipe at home (upstairs). Managed to rip up the floor boards and put my thumb over the hole. Then fell through the gap where the floorboards should have been and crashed through the ceiling. There I was, feet and legs dangling in the lounge downstairs, desperately trying to cling on to the gas pipe I'd just punctured.

If you look at the thread 'OIL SIGHT GLASS LEAKING' you'll see I made a hash of that - a supposedly simple, 10 minute job. By the time I'd drilled the old one to bits and then damaged the crankcase of the bike trying to lever out the remains, it leaked worse that when I started!

We all have skills and talents we can bring to the party. Working on bikes IS NOT one of mine!

[BMWEW1]

QDs are a simple fix, if you only remove the old ones and replace with new metal ones (meaning do not remove the tank and also replace the FI gaslines) then you'll be done 45-60 min max. Do it now before they fail in the middle of nowhere on a Sunday afternoon cauz its a PIA, I know!