Trouble starting, rough idle

[kemagill]

This is my first post to the forum. I upgraded in January from a metric cruiser to a 2004 1150R and I'm having problems for the first time.

First, I've searched and read quite a few threads in here on idle problems, TB sync, coil sticks, etc. However, my problem came on pretty suddenly and at a low mileage, so I wanted to get suggestions on where to start.

Early 2004 dual spark R1150R, stock (no aftermarket parts and no *-ectomies), ~9k miles. I bought it 5 months ago used from a private seller, but had the local BMW dealer do a pre-purchase inspection w/ computer diagnostics and the bike checked out in perfect condition. The bike has started, idled, and run perfectly since I bought it, until recently.

A few weeks ago, I pulled the wheels off to get some new tires put on. The bike sat in the garage for about 2 weeks waiting for me to reassemble. When I started it back up 2 weeks later, it sounded a little different. A little rougher; more growl and less purr. I thought it was just psychological because I hadn't been on it in a couple weeks. Then it started getting progressively worse over the last few weeks. I started needing to set the idle increase to get it to start and I felt more of a v-twin type uneven idle or more of a rocking couple or something from the engine.

This progressed over a few weeks and here's where it's at now:

• Need to use idle increase to get it to start, including holding the "high" setting on the lever (never needed to do this in the past)
• Many times it stalls seconds after starting, so I'll hold the throttle grip open a little to get it started (revs to ~3000 when it kicks in)
• Uneven idle speed, with the needle bouncing a little. Never did this in the past and has progressively gotten worse.
• Uneven sounding idle, with more of an American v-twin sound than in the past. Sort of chugalugs or misses a few beats.
• Some white vapor out of the exhaust after coercing it to start (I know this can be somewhat normal, but I've never seen it on my bike before these other problems.)
• Just started surging on my last ride, in 2nd gear while holding throttle steady around 3k RPM. The surging isn't always there, but I felt it a couple times.
• Runs great at speed! It has a rough idle at stop lights after riding at speed for a while, but doesn't feel like it's going to stall. Not yet at least. I'm worried that's where it's heading.

I've seen many of the above symptoms in other posts, but not for a bike with only 9000 miles. I looked over the throttle bodies and the cables are routed correctly and the butterflies move smoothly and in sync (visually in sync). The vacuum lines to the TBs look in good shape and are connected well. I've been through a few tanks of gas.

Some things to try:

• Sea Foam
• Valve adjustment
• TB sync
• Adjust tension on idle increase lever cable
• Check plugs
• New coil sticks

While valve adjustments and TB sync are a good idea, I find it hard to believe this sudden degradation is due to one of those. The symptoms sound suspicious of the coil sticks, but with only 9k miles on them, I don't want to spend $250 if I don't have to.

Given the sudden onset of some of the symptoms, the steadily worsening of them, and the low mileage, where should I start? I'm hoping to get it running well soon (I use it as a daily commuter when I can), then do the other general maintenance once it's running right.

Thanks in advance!

Kevin

[R4R&R]

IMO, it sounds like the primary sparkplug coil is bad on one of the cylinders. Since you have a "two spark" model (so do I), you can test the primary spark plug coils by doing the following:
With the bike running, reach down and unplug the secondary plug boot form the sparkplug. You'll probably have to remove a small cover before doing this. If you don't hear a noticeable difference in the idle, then do the same for the other cylinder (you can put the secondary plug boot back on before trying the other side. If the bike pretty much dies when you pull the secondary plug wire off, then you have a bad stick coil. This means that one cylinder is running completely off the secondary coil.

It could also be water in the fuel?

[boxermania]

R4R&R +1

Although you indicated that the cables are OK, I would check to see of the TB's cables are inside the adjusters, sometimes while moving things around they pull out and don't go back in.....

[rdsmith3]

If it sat for a couple of weeks, is it possible that mice got into your air filter box? It's worth a check if the coil is not the problem.

[kemagill]

Man, I hope there's not a mouse in the airbox. Won't be much fun cleaning that up. But good thing to keep in mind if nothing else seems to work.

Here's where I'm at. I was hoping to troubleshoot the coils yesterday, but the bike started great on the first try. Pulling plug wires didn't tell me much. But this morning the bike idled like crap again. So, it's somewhat intermittent. This morning, while running rough, I pulled various plug wires and saw this:

• Pulled right side secondary wire. Very slight change in idle, but not much. Getting good sparks when plug touches metal.
• Pulled left side secondary wire. Same response as right side.
• Pulled right side primary wire. Slight change in idle, but didn't really try to stall.
• Pulled left side primary wire. Bike stuttered and stalled.

I did this a couple times and after the bike warmed up, pulling the left side primary didn't stall the bike anymore, but definitely made it run worse. This makes me suspect the right side coil stick. Pulling the right primary has little change if that stick is going bad. Pulling the left side primary stalls the bike if that coil/plug is still working well and the right one is bad.

Another thing I tried is I opened each throttle body butterfly independently by hand while idling. When I rotated the left side wheel open a little, the bike increased idle but ran a little rougher. When I rotated the right side wheel open by hand, the bike didn't increase idle, but instead started to stutter and almost stall.

One thing I didn't mention before is the previous owner dropped the bike on its right side in his driveway, before he installed cylinder guards. There's scrapes on the plastic cover over the right side coil/plug. The head of the coil stick looks fine on the right side, but sometime in the past there was an impact to that side. Maybe that could cause the right coil stick to fail early?

The last thing I noticed is in the first few minutes of idling, there's some water dripping off the cat. It looks like it's coming from the exhaust canister and dripping down to the bottom of the cat, then dropping on the ground. Eventually it stops, probably due to the exhaust heating up. This happened this morning, as well as yesterday when the bike was idling just fine. I haven't ridden the bike in the rain in a while and it stays in the garage. This may be coincidental, but I thought I'd mention it.

I'm leaning toward the right coil stick being the problem, but still not sure. Anyone see another culprit based on the info above? Thanks

[boxermania]

The death of stick coils is heat and it ussually begins with deterioration of idle, stuttering, surging and the like. You have a bad stick coil and it appears to be on the right side, typically the other one is not far behind, but I'll let you make that decision.

The water is condensation.....nothing to worry about.

[iowabeakster]

+1 what boxermania said.

I don't think the drop from the previous owner did anything to the coil. Nothing could make those things worse, they are just exceptionally low quality. I think you are #5 (just recently) with an "'04 that runs rough" due to bad coil.

I say this half-jokingly (and half-incredulous) ...everybody with an 04...go ahead and replace both of those coils now...you're just procrastinating if you don't.

[kemagill]

Thanks everyone.

I'm not happy about buying new parts for a bike with only 9000 miles. But I'll feel better about it if I know the new ones will last much much longer. Do the new stick coils (with the grey tops) last longer than the originals, or should I expect to replace these again in the future?

[boxermania]

kemagill

Th egrey top is the "new version", it is hard to say if it is any better than the "old version", the general belief is that the epoxy might be a bit better shield against the heat, but it hasn't been documented.

Before you plunk your hard earned money, I know there are several members around you neck of the woods, you might want to put a call for help and see if one of them can lend you a stick coil for a test....also BMW boneyard might have some albeit not new......

[taosports]

Before you plunk your hard earned money, I know there are several members around you neck of the woods, you might want to put a call for help and see if one of them can lend you a stick coil for a test....

Agreed...they easily plug/unplug so it's quick and easy to do.

[CycleRob]

Another thing I tried is I opened each throttle body butterfly independently by hand while idling. When I rotated the left side wheel open a little, the bike increased idle but ran a little rougher. When I rotated the right side wheel open by hand, the bike didn't increase idle, but instead started to stutter and almost stall.

You can NOT open only the right side TB throttle and have the engine respond. When you open the left throttle only, it also opens the attached TPS that asks for more fuel for the throttle opening and it responds. Opening just the right side throttle does not get the fuel it needs, it only gets the same tiny idle mixture fuel that the left TB's TPS is calling for. That will not fire at all and the the right cylinder goes dead.

I hope you are not open firing the lower plugs secondary wires. That is, running the engine with the wire's output not going to ground. You should have another spare sparkplug plugged in and grounded to to a nearby bolt, not the almost totally insulated powder coat painted Aluminum fins. Open firing can damage a good coil by creating/burning a new path to ground, or worse yet, jump 40,000 volts to the primary terminals leading back to the Motronic
.

[Biff's R]

Man, I hope there's not a mouse in the airbox. Won't be much fun cleaning that up. But good thing to keep in mind if nothing else seems to work.

Here's where I'm at. I was hoping to troubleshoot the coils yesterday, but the bike started great on the first try. Pulling plug wires didn't tell me much. But this morning the bike idled like crap again. So, it's somewhat intermittent. This morning, while running rough, I pulled various plug wires and saw this:

• Pulled right side secondary wire. Very slight change in idle, but not much. Getting good sparks when plug touches metal.
• Pulled left side secondary wire. Same response as right side.
• Pulled right side primary wire. Slight change in idle, but didn't really try to stall.
• Pulled left side primary wire. Bike stuttered and stalled.

I did this a couple times and after the bike warmed up, pulling the left side primary didn't stall the bike anymore, but definitely made it run worse. This makes me suspect the right side coil stick. Pulling the right primary has little change if that stick is going bad. Pulling the left side primary stalls the bike if that coil/plug is still working well and the right one is bad.

If I am reading this correctly, then isn't your problem the wire to the left side secondary plug?