Undiagnosed burning electrical smell

[takemeaway]

Hi! Need your expertise please. I've had my '07 R12R for about 8 months and have put about 5K miles on it. Purchased it with 9500 miles on. When it went in for its 12K service they noticed the shaft seal leaking and the bike went in for a new seal and resultant new clutch. I've put about 1500 miles on the new clutch without any incidents.

Went for a ride on Saturday and started to smell a horrid burning electrical smell at a stop. Hopped off and "sniffed" around. Couldn't find anything. Kept going and 15 miles down the road the smell was worse. Pulled the seat and felt the smell was much stronger around the battery, but the battery and any wiring wasn't hot. Just turned around and rode it to the shop.

Initial thought was it was the ZF controller...they had a couple GS's come in lately with the same smell and problem. They removed the tank to get to the controller, but the controller wasn't hot. "Sniffing" around they then thought the smell was eminating from the ABS unit. But they say they have not had any failures with the new ABS units at all. All diagnostics were normal.

While waiting they removed the starter and the burning electrical smell was so strong! I'm not noticing any clutch slippage. And the starter and clutch gears are covered in a fine black powder (that they say is normal).

They haven't been able to diagnose anything as being wrong. Other then the smell everything is running fine with no noticeable problems. They have a message into regional, but haven't heard back yet. They are basically suggesting putting it back together and giving it back to me. Ride it until the problem shows itself...

I really don't like that option since I had planned on doing some long distance, over-night riding over the next month. And don't want to risk breaking down on the road. The mechanic did mention one thing about ABS failing if the brakes aren't bleed properly. Does anyone have any ideas?

[deilenberger]

The fine black powder, and the fact that the smell was much stronger when the starter was removed makes me think the clutch is slipping, and the burning smell you detect is from that.

Question - if you're toodling along in say 5th gear at 40MPH (I know - it's lugging it - but for a reason) and you crank the throttle on HARD - can you detect engine speed changing faster than your road speed? If so - that's the sign of a slipping clutch, and I'd bounce it right back to them to do over..

[takemeaway]

Don, thanks for the diagnosis steps. I did not notice anything like that on Saturday. Though I wasn't lugging it that low. The shop was supposed to put it back together and test it, but they have been waiting for regional since they feel the clutch is new. If they gave it back to me without fixing anything your suggestion is exactly what I was going to try.

I'm just so annoyed becuase it has been in the shop so much lately. And now it might be another week...and the weather has just gotten gorgeous and it looks like I am reduced to riding the husbands Sportster during the week and not riding at all on the weekend!!!

-Lori

[celticus]

it looks like I am reduced to riding the husbands Sportster during the week and not riding at all on the weekend!!!

-Lori

Wear a full face helmet and maybe no one will know it's you, reduced to riding....well what you are reduced to riding.

Mark

[WILDPIG]

OH I'D SAY YOU'RE MERELY JOINING THE RANKS OF BMW RIDERS THAT HAVE USUED A HARLEY WHEN-- THE BEEMER WONT START OR RUN CORRECTLY......................... ACTUALLY-- THAT SPORTSTER WILL CARRY YOU DOWN THE ROAD QUITE NICELY., AN IF REPAIRS ARE NEEDED--AT A FRACTION OF THE COST OF A BMW REPAIR.. THATS MY 2 CENTS AN I OWN BOTH BRANDS.

[mogu83]

OH I'D SAY YOU'RE MERELY JOINING THE RANKS OF BMW RIDERS THAT HAVE USUED A HARLEY WHEN-- THE BEEMER WONT START OR RUN CORRECTLY......................... ACTUALLY-- THAT SPORTSTER WILL CARRY YOU DOWN THE ROAD QUITE NICELY., AN IF REPAIRS ARE NEEDED--AT A FRACTION OF THE COST OF A BMW REPAIR.. THATS MY 2 CENTS AN I OWN BOTH BRANDS.

Wildpig, I hate to get personal but I have to ask. WHY, IN THE NAME OF GOD, DO YOU KEEP THE BEEMER WHEN YOU REPORTABLY HAVE NOTHING BUT TROUBLE WITH IT, YOUR EXPERIENCES WITH THE DEALERS SEEMS TO ALWAYS BE UNSATISFACTORY AND THE COMPANY HASN'T TREATED YOU FAIRLY. If it was me I would have unloaded that piece of trash and moved on to something else. Or are there some good features that keep the Beemer in your garage? At a recent Polar Bear ride we stopped at a Harley dealer and the showroom was loaded with new 08s and a few 07s at really great prices.

I only ask because most of the people have had some type of problem with their bikes but you seem to have more than every one else put together.
Don't want to cause a problem - but I just had to ask.

[takemeaway]

ROFL. Husband had a good laugh. Actually took the sportster on the road today. Not having ridden it before I do have to say it does have some nice features...but still not the bike for me (full time).

Got the R12R back today...and of course they didn't find anything. Their recommendation is to just ride it and see if it continues or something else comes out of the works. Husband took it out and ran it through the paces. The clutch is not slipping. He tested it at 40 mph in 4th, 5th and 6th and floored it- RPM didn't slip a bit and gradually rose with bike speed, abused a little by going 50 in 4th or 5th and pulled clutch in, raised RPM and released clutch to see if it would grab or slip (sorry for abuse) and nothing adverse was noticeable. Then he just had fun with it.

He pulled it into the garage and we had a good "smell-fest"...smell was most noticeable just over the rear of the left head next to the tank and right behind the air intake, nothing on the right side. Smell completely went away when the engine was turned off.

On a side note I have a question on clutch usage... The salesperson at the shop is telling me that YOU DO NOT SIT AT A STOP LIGHT OR SIGN WITH THE CLUTCH DISENGAGED OR THE LEVER PULLED IN. He says the appropriate usage should be that the bike is in neutral with the clutch lever released while stopped. He says that sitting with the clutch lever pulled in will burn the clutch up. Is this correct??? This goes against anything that has been taught about leaving the bike in gear for a quick getaway if necessary?

Back to the burning smell...could this be occurring if the ABS unit is failing? The tech brought up the fact that the brakes need to be bleed at least every 2 years or so...and if something is going on with the brakes this smell could also occur. Does anyone have any thoughts on this?

Thank you so much for any help or ideas!

-Lori

[deilenberger]

ROFL. Husband had a good laugh. Actually took the sportster on the road today. Not having ridden it before I do have to say it does have some nice features...but still not the bike for me (full time).

Got the R12R back today...and of course they didn't find anything. Their recommendation is to just ride it and see if it continues or something else comes out of the works. Husband took it out and ran it through the paces. The clutch is not slipping. He tested it at 40 mph in 4th, 5th and 6th and floored it- RPM didn't slip a bit and gradually rose with bike speed, abused a little by going 50 in 4th or 5th and pulled clutch in, raised RPM and released clutch to see if it would grab or slip (sorry for abuse) and nothing adverse was noticeable. Then he just had fun with it.

Ahhh... now you're in trouble. Bet he starts suggesting "mebbe you want to take the Hog?.." when you two leave for a ride. I wouldn't resist it - you can always own two R12R's.. make them different colors so you can tell them apart..

He pulled it into the garage and we had a good "smell-fest"...smell was most noticeable just over the rear of the left head next to the tank and right behind the air intake, nothing on the right side. Smell completely went away when the engine was turned off.

Ummm... air intake is on right side (throttle side, or starboard in nautical terms).. Sounds as if there is some smell coming up from the head. Once it cools off - take your finger and run it under the cylinder where the valve cover mates to the head. Possible you have a tiny oil seep in the area that is burning off when it gets hot and making a stink.

On a side note I have a question on clutch usage... The salesperson at the shop is telling me that YOU DO NOT SIT AT A STOP LIGHT OR SIGN WITH THE CLUTCH DISENGAGED OR THE LEVER PULLED IN. He says the appropriate usage should be that the bike is in neutral with the clutch lever released while stopped. He says that sitting with the clutch lever pulled in will burn the clutch up. Is this correct??? This goes against anything that has been taught about leaving the bike in gear for a quick getaway if necessary?

That's the problem with people working at dealerships - they quite often are completely absolutely positively WRONG. But they'll say things with an air of authority that makes you almost believe thier BS.

It won't hurt a thing except your fingers holding the clutch disengaged while waiting for a light, or break in traffic. If my hand is bothering me, I may shift to neutral - that about guarantees the light will change RIGHT THEN.. but holding it in does not hurt the clutch (or clutch release) at ALL. Total baloney from the salesman.

Back to the burning smell...could this be occurring if the ABS unit is failing? The tech brought up the fact that the brakes need to be bleed at least every 2 years or so...and if something is going on with the brakes this smell could also occur. Does anyone have any thoughts on this?

Since your bike is an '07 from memory - it should have been subject to the brake line recall of last year. While doing that job they HAVE TO bleed/flush the brakes. Since they didn't mention any open recalls to you - chances are real good that job was done, and you don't have to fret over a brake fluid flush for at least another year.

Old brake fluid - VERY OLD - like 5-10 years old - might cause some corrosion of the working cylinders in the ABS modulator. It would not cause anything electrical to give problems. Not gonna happen. And 2-3 year old fluid isn't gonna do anything bad, which is why BMW specifies a 2 year service interval. The shop (again - trying to sound helpful and like they know what they're doing) doesn't have a clue what's wrong. Since the ABS unit isn't getting hot - it's not causing the burning smell. I'm willing to bet one beer that it's something much simpler. Have you checked the exhaust for some melted on plastic? The cat converter gets VERY hot - and a plastic bag blown against it is gonna make a sticky/smelly/mess.

This also would be the first failure of an EVO ABS unit I would have heard of - and I'm fairly plugged into the Hexhead community, not only here, but on several other forums, adding up to a total of probably thousands of bikes and owners. Never heard of an ABS failure on them. It would surprise me if this was the actual problem.

If the dealership is that sure of it - the bike is under warranty - tell them to replace it. It probably won't fix a thing except shutting them up about it being the problem.

Thank you so much for any help or ideas!

-Lori

There are some ideas.. and a suggestion - always take what you hear at dealerships with a grain of salt.

[mogu83]

quote]
On a side note I have a question on clutch usage... The salesperson at the shop is telling me that YOU DO NOT SIT AT A STOP LIGHT OR SIGN WITH THE CLUTCH DISENGAGED OR THE LEVER PULLED IN. He says the appropriate usage should be that the bike is in neutral with the clutch lever released while stopped. He says that sitting with the clutch lever pulled in will burn the clutch up. Is this correct??? This goes against anything that has been taught about leaving the bike in gear for a quick getaway if necessary?[/quote]

I believe that the MSF is now telling new riders (basic course) that you should sit at lights with the bike in gear and the clutch in. That way if a situation happens you will be able to move out of the way quickly. This from a few people that have spent about the same amount of time at MSF classes as they have on the road.
This goes against everything I've learned over the years. Those of us that started out on clapped out Brit, Italian or Spanish bikes that usually had a carburetor so old that you could hear the slide rattling around inside, learned that you had to keep blipping the throttle to keep the poor old thing running at idle. Sitting at a light blipping the throttle in gear when the clutch cable decided to break (they were only replaced when they broke) could launch you into cross traffic, so you learned to shift to first going up to the light and then slip it into neutral.
I guess with hydraulic activated clutches cable breakage isn't an issue but old habits die slowly. Maybe the salesman was an old guy.

[famousperson]

This goes against everything I've learned over the years. Those of us that started out on clapped out Brit, Italian or Spanish bikes that usually had a carburetor so old that you could hear the slide rattling around inside, learned that you had to keep blipping the throttle to keep the poor old thing running at idle. Sitting at a light blipping the throttle in gear when the clutch cable decided to break (they were only replaced when they broke) could launch you into cross traffic, so you learned to shift to first going up to the light and then slip it into neutral.

I had to laugh. How well I remember the snapping clutch cable! Those were the days, eh? The hell with technology. Give me the perpetual oil leak and the trail of bits and piece as I motor down the road...

[qgaex]

I DO DISAGREE!

I had a "bits and pieces" bike long time ago and while it was a wonderful little machine I also had the snapping BRAKE cable when rolling towards a red light. Makes you stomp down your right foot real hard. Praying is also supposed to help.

Give me a near to perfect modern bike any day and let me reminisce of old days with a beer in the evening!

Cheers

qgaex
+exgilera150stradarider+

[takemeaway]

LOL. Thanks for the replies, comments, suggestions and reminiscence.

Nothing is burning on the exhaust, I've crawled all around it. The valve cover/head seal isn't leaking/seeping oil. I've experienced that smell when the seals leaked right after the 12K service. Both seals leaked!!

I'm gonna take the bike out today and "test" the clutch: regular riding, stopping with and without clutch engaged, just idling... any other things you can think of to continue testing?

Thank You!!
-Lori