Bike prep for winter riding?

[Paul-from-VA]

I ride about 10 miles to work and with morning temprature at 23 F I noticed the oil temp display got to mid screen about the time I got to work. Winter tempratures here can get to single digits, should I be doing anything different with oil, or riding procedures?

[Bill Stevenson]

I used to ride year round in New England, and before that in Seattle, so no snide remarks from the peanut gallery about a Florida guy taking a stab at answering this question please. Anyway, a lighter oil would be good. BMW used to recommend 10W40 for riding below 40 degrees F if memory serves. Lighter oil will flow better at low temps and provide better lubrication. Ride easy in cold weather because your tires will not grip as well and your dexterity is impaired a bit by the gloves, heavier clothing etcetera. Increase your following distances by about 1 second from what they normally are in warm weather. I find an electric vest to be essential not only for comfort but for control of the bike. If your parts are frozen your reactions are slower. Take frequent breaks and get inside and drink hot fluids to avoid hypothermia. Riding in cold weather is not for everyone, but it can be done reasonably safely if you apply some common sense to the activity. Naturally riding in snow or ice is not a good idea.

Bill

[ErikM]

Full Synth oil is the best for cold weather, assuming that your bike has enough miles to switch, assuming you are already running synth. Other than that keep warm

[TAG-Caver]

My dealer was mortified when I told them I was using 10-40 in the winter, they said 20-50 was good to about 10 degrees. Looking at the owners manual 10-40 or 5-50 is acceptable and probably a better choice for those wonderful single digit mornings. I use Golden Spectro semi-synthetic 10-40 in my DR650 in the winter and it works fine. I avoid riding my R12R once the roads get a good dose of salt. I've read where synthetic oil flows more easily in cold temps so if your bike is run in, you may want to go that route.

[ka5ysy]

Actually, your engine has no idea what kind of oil, synthetic or dino juice, you are running. Only consideration is breakin first few thousand miles where it is cheaper to use dino oil because I change oil several times in the first thousand or so. Its cheaper.

Air cooled engines should be using synthetic because it survives heat much better than regular oil, and is not subject to coking if overheated. That is why all turbine engines only use synthetics.

[NeilS]

I wouldn't worry too much about oil. The main reason for going to lighter oil in the winter is to reduce the load on the starting system when it's cold, so if your bike continues to crank OK, you're OK. The oil pump is a positive-displacement pump, so you'll get the oil flow you need regardless. Ideally, you'd want your ride to be long enough to get the oil hot enough to drive off combustion by-products, but that has nothing to do with your choice of oil.

What I worry about most when riding in the winter is invisible ice on the road. Sometimes it's warm enough during the day to melt some of the snow along the side of the road. The water runs across the road and then refreezes later in the day. Very slippery, and hard to see when it's dark.

Another hint: The electric hand grips are great for your palms, but the backs of your hands are out in the airstream. I put one of those chemical heat packs between my glove and the back of my hand on longer rides. They work wonders and don't interfere at all with control operation.

[Bill Stevenson]

Neil,

I agree with everything you say here, except I think we are missing each other on the importance of using a lower viscosity oil in cold weather riding conditions. The problem is not the oil pump, and as you say if the engine cranks and starts that is a good sign. Nevertheless, most engine wear occurs upon start-up of a cold engine. The oil needs to flow through the journals to reach the bearings and light weight oil flows more easily than heavy oil. Again oil flow is critical at start-up. Lest you think I am making this stuff up and presuming since we are riding the same bikes, we all have the same Owner's Manual, look on page 131 of your owners manual for a table of oil recommendations for varying climactic conditions.

Regards,

Bill

[NeilS]

Bill,

What you say is true, and it would matter if the oil drained out of the oil lines and the bearing surfaces. But that's not really what happens. When you turn an engine off, the crankshaft (for example) settles to the bottom of the bearing bore, displacing a small amount of oil, but, for the most part, the oil passages and bearing surfaces remain full of oil. When the engine is restarted, it's not necessary to "recharge" the lines, just to re-center the shafts in the bearings.

So flow isn't really important, what's important is the rate of propagation of the pressure waveform in the oil as a result of the pump starting to turn. It's the pressure that "lifts" the shafts so they are centered in the bearing bores, and that's what prevents the metal-to-metal contact that causes wear. And that's pretty quick. Is it slower with more viscous oil at low temperature? Probably, but the more viscous oil is also more likely to re-establish the oil film in the bearing, so the effect is reduced to some extent. Does it matter in the long run? Dunno.

The info in the owner's manual (which is on page 132 of mine, BTW) is at best confusing. First they say 20W-50 as a "blanket" recommendation, then they present a list of permissible weights vs. temperature. But it's impossible to know the rationale behind the recommendations.

[deilenberger]

What's interesting is Blackstone's take on it (since they test used oil..):

http://www.blackstone-labs.com/oil_viscosity.html

[Bill Stevenson]

I think the Blackstone paper frames the discussion quite well. Cold oil resists flow compared to the same oil at an elevated temperature. The fact that oil is in the journals is not the problem. The problem on start up of a cold engine is getting the oil to flow through those journals. As Blackstone says, cold oil resists flow. Does it matter? Yes it does and this is clearly spelled out in the Blackstone paper as well. The best oil for a given application is the lowest viscosity oil that can establish a film and float the moving parts under all loads and operating conditions.

I wonder if anyone reading this thread is in Europe? The last time I was over there the only oil I could find for the BMW motorcycle I was riding was 10W40. When I asked for 20W50 they thought I was nuts. This was not that many years ago.

Bill

[NeilS]

Bill,

I think you're reading things into the Blackstone paper that aren't quite there. They say to use the lightest oil possible, but that's only from an efficiency standpoint. They also only say, in the context of single-viscosity vs. multigrade, that the advantage of the thinner oil on start-up is that the engine spins more easily, not that it lubricates better or sooner.

Again, while more viscous oils resist flow to a greater degree, it's not flow that matters. What's important, from a wear point of view, is that the oil in the bearing reach a pressure sufficient to support the shaft (without metal-to-metal contact) as quickly as possible. Flow is important, from cooling and wear-product removal points of view, but that's not the critical factor on start-up.

Consider a hose full of water. It's connected to a supply valve at one end and there's a restriction at the other end. The supply valve is closed, but there's 80 psi of water pressure on the supply side of the valve. There is zero psi in the hose. Now open the valve. The pressure at the far end of the hose rises very quickly, well before the water molecules that were introduced at the valve end of the hose reach the far end. In fact, the pressure wave propagates along the hose at roughly the speed of sound, which has little if anything to do with the flow rate of the water.

[Bill Stevenson]

Neil,

Consider this scenario (this has been demonstrated in laboratory experiments). An oil pump is furnishing oil pressure but the engine is not running. Question: Is oil pressure alone capable of supporting bearings? Answer: No, for oil to get into the space between a bearing and the race there must be rotation of the bearing. So when the oil is viscous and resistant to flow it takes longer for metal to metal contact to be eliminated by a film of oil. During this time, worst upon start up of a cold engine, is when 90% of the wear occurs inside an engine. Lower viscosity oil flows more easily all else equal which translates to faster oil film and results in less wear for cold start up. The limitation is that lower viscosity oil has traditionally not been able to maintain an adequate film at high temperature. The development of more sophisticated polymers and more recently of synthetic lubes tolerate high temperatures more effectively with the general trend being to lighter oils for most automotive applications. In addition to less wear, lighter oil yields better fuel economy, which is probably the more significant driving force behind the trend.

Regards,

Bill

[towerworker]

Paul-from-Va--

I too live in Va (Staunton) and I have ridden all year thru since 2003. I run 20/50 Castrol in the summer and 10/40 in the winter. Probably come March I will take it back to 20/50. For only the second winter I am running a Battery Tender Jr. I never had any past problem with battery holding a charge since I rode it if not every day during the winter--it was at least ridden once or twice that week.

I start the bike and let it run maybe a minute or two prior to riding off. I keep the revs below 4k till the engine is warmed up good---and I am very, very easy on the throttle and brakes in turns and approaching and leaving stops when its very cold. There is very little rubber in contact with the pavement and on top of that the tires are very cold as is the asphalt. I learned that the hard way last Jan when I dumped it on a very small patch of ice and broke my leg. I never gave much thought in the past concerning cold tires and roads (they don't go well together). I think about it every day now when I ride----have a steel rod in my leg to remind me. I still love riding and would ride every day if possible but I now try to use some common sense concerning temps and road conditions.

I rode yesterday for an hour or so (below 30) and maybe an hour today and it was near 40. I have a heated jacket liner and thermostat and love it! Best $ I ever spent on riding apparel. I use good quality insulated gloves from Alpinestar and they do a great job as well in conjunction with the heated grips. A good anti-fogging product is important for your shield as well on really cold days. Your breath will really keep it fogged unless you keep the shield open just a little or coat the plastic with an anti-fogging product.

But my most vocal advice would be to be very, very cautious on cold days and make your movements well planned and deliberate. Quick movements (lane changes, acceleration, braking) don't work out real well on really cold tires and roads.

Oh and one other thing.............be sure to check the antifreeze in your radiators!

Wayne

[ErikM]

I'd also recommend that one runs their tire presures a few psi lower in cold weather, helps the tires warm up and increases the size of the contact patch a bit

[Graf]

Oh and one other thing.............be sure to check the antifreeze in your radiators!

Wayne

antifreeze???.....radiator????.....hmmmm

[oldjackbob]

A couple of considerations I haven't seen anyone mention yet...

1) Thicker oil is harder to pump. Hypoid pump-drive gears driving a positive displacement pump are highly stressed when pumping thick oil, and experience extreme shear forces at a time when there may be little or no lubrication between the drive gears (a situation that is found at startup, and for a few moments afterwards).

2) Thicker oil drains back into the sump more slowly, which means that for any given engine rpm there is more oil that is still up "high" in the engine which hasn't drained back down yet, and less oil available in the sump.

Just thinkin' out loud.

Mark