What caused the engine to seize?

[dasronin]

1995 R1100RA, has it's major service then the next routine service. During that service forks rebuilt, new rear disc & pads.

Currently 28,2xx miles. I have owned it since 20,000 miles, never a problem. Today on the way home the low fuel light comes on. I pull into QT, shut down the engine and fill the tank. I finish, switch on the key and only CLUNK. I figure low battery as it is 3 years old. Roll down a slope in the lot, dump the clutch, rear tire skids like a locked brake. I figure too slow and high compression. Thirty minutes later AAA arrives, after I get home I get a jumper box and hook to battery... CLUNK.

I pull the starter. Other than looking 13 years old it looks fine. I pull both spark plugs and try to crank... CLUNK. I put it in gear and try to rotate the tire to turn the engine. ***** I get about 1 degree of movement. Something has FUBARed.

Is it seized at the crank or has a rod come lose? Has a valve failed (I would think not since I would think I'd get more than 1 degree of rotation.)

I guess since whatever dropped to lock up the crank, there would be a minimal amount of damage. If you know what happened... let me know this. Was it a failure that would not have happened until the engine stopped... or am I lucky I stopped for gas and the engine did not seize at 45 mph in traffic? (The last time I had an engine seize I was going about 60 mph on a 1969 (?) Bridgestone 350 GTR. It was everything I could do to keep it up until i got stopped. I do not know who had more of a sheer terror look on their face. Me as I looked back at the station wagon which was trying not to run into me, or the guy driving the station wagon thinking he was going to crash into me? It might have been a tie!!!)

I guess I jinxed myself. I was not long ago talking about the dependability of the boxer engines and them lasting for 200k or more.

[00zero]

In what gear did you put it in??

[MikeCam]

Could it be the transmission or the clutch splines? I would expect one of those to fail long before an engine - valve, crank, rod or whatever.

Maybe the shift dogs are bent, locking it into one gear; maybe the driveshaft has seized (I am grasping here). Never heard of an engine seizing unless some prior damage or lack of oil proceeded it.

[dasronin]

I do not think it is clutch or transmission. I was able to pull in the clutch and roll down a slope. So the transmission COULD prevent the rear wheel from rolling in gear, but since it will roll in neutral and with the clutch in it would not seem that it would not lock up the engine. With the bike in 1st and then in 2nd, with the spark plugs out, I could not turn the engine by rotating the rear wheel.

I always go into neutral and turn the key to shut off the engine. I do not use the kill switch or drop the side stand until I turn off the key. That is exactly what I did when I stopped for gas. I then took it off the center stand, sat on it and raised the side stand. In neutral I hit the starter and clunk. In neutral I them rolled away from the pumps. I do not see how it cannot be the engine... I'd be thrilled if it was a transmission problem!

[NoRRmad]

Sure does sound like a seized engine... But it's easiest to turn the engine over by hand in the topmost gear. Can you do that?

[dasronin]

I did not try in 5th gear. The reason... I had tried to "roll" start it twice before I called a tow truck. The tire skidded when I dumped the clutch both times. In both 1st & 2nd I was able to get one or two degrees of rotation by moving the rear wheel. Something is blocking rotation both clockwise and counter clockwise. I did not want to rotate the engine backwards, but after no movement rotating the rear tire the "rolling" direction, I reversed that and got the 1+- degree of rotation then when I rotated the rear wheel the forward direction I also got 1+- degree of movement. I did this twice. Something is FUBAR preventing all but the slightest rotation.

[SLEDGE]

Well that is what they sound like when the motor is frosen up, clunk! Seams like you would have felt it "tighten up" first though.Was it smoking at all? You would have heard some bad clunking griding ect. if you dropped a valve at eany speed much at all.Dose it have oil in it? You could drain the oil and look for metal in it.
Good Luck

[NoRRmad]

A first-gear roll start is guaranteed to skid the tire, and second gear requires a well-timed drop onto the seat while declutching to aviod a skid. The one-degree movement you describe could easily be just lash in the final drive, though. Have you checked the oil yet? Keep us posted.

[maduko]

I would pull the front plastic cover and get a socket on the crank pulley nut. It's hard to hand-prop them from the tire.

[dasronin]

A first-gear roll start is guaranteed to skid the tire, and second gear requires a well-timed drop onto the seat while declutching to aviod a skid. The one-degree movement you describe could easily be just lash in the final drive, though. Have you checked the oil yet? Keep us posted.

With the spark plugs pulled I should have been able to rotate the engine since there was no compression. I have done it on my Buell with the plugs in.

I live in an apartment and have not pulled the oil drain. There was plenty of oil, and once again the shut down was normal. I will not know if there are metal shavings until I get setup to crack into the engine. No tools here, they are still in Missouri. The Clunk was when the starter rotated the starter ring and whatever inside prevented engine rotation... did so.

If there had been enough battery left the make spark (and there was not) I have been able to get a roll at that same speed on my Buell and turn the motor over that way in first gear. In that case, the battery was too low for the fuel pump to pressurize, and the ECM to make spark.

[jimz49]

The fact that everything was normal up to the point that you tried to restart the bike, makes me thing it may have something to do with the starter or what it engages with. The starter is the first mechanical thing to come into play and that is where I'd start. Remember, do the easy things first.

Is there a secondary sprag gear or mechanism that works in conjunction with the starter to engage the ring?

[dasronin]

The fact that everything was normal up to the point that you tried to restart the bike, makes me thing it may have something to do with the starter or what it engages with. The starter is the first mechanical thing to come into play and that is where I'd start. Remember, do the easy things first.

Is there a secondary sprag gear or mechanism that works in conjunction with the starter to engage the ring?

I had that thought too. I pulled the starter and it was free of the starter ring. It did not lock with the starter ring. The starter drive gear had even properly retracted back, so as much as I wish it was something that simple, it is not the starter.

I think short of cracking open the engine there will be no clue. I was hoping someone had heard or knew of a similar failure and could do the ""Hey I had/know of the exact failure!"

I think now I need to go into the what do I want to do mode. Once I get totally moved from Missouri, short of a BMW specific engine stand, I have the tools to deal with this. The problem is that it could easily be 6 months to a year until I have my shop setup. I hate the thought of untreated fuel being in the injectors that long.

I also hate to let it go at a major loss. It has nearly new tires, the frontend was just rebuilt, a new rear disc and brake pads, a new techlusion module, an autocom, factory ABS, hyperlight tail light, factory alternate tail light... short of parting it out it would be a major loss, even with the engine issue. If I had the means of parting it out, I would also have the means to crack it open!

Oh well!

[sweatmark]

Well, this is a new one.

For the situation you've described: gas stop, no prior warning/noises/vibration/loos of power, sufficient oil, clutch-in rolling, no bump start or plugs-out engine rotation...

There's just not much to the Boxer engine to troubleshoot. Engine's bottom end would have screamed to get your attention if a bearing suddenly let go. A valve would have announced itself too. The devil on my shoulder days something to do with timing chains, but that's not convincing. The angel on the other shoulder thinks the alternator is shot somehow, and its belt is miraculously strong & tight enough to stop crankshaft from turning... pull the tank, loosen alternator and drive belt, wrench the crank by hand, think goog thoughts?

Good luck with this, and let us know.

Mark
Oregon
also with 2003 XB9S

[dasronin]

Well, this is a new one.

For the situation you've described: gas stop, no prior warning/noises/vibration/loos of power, sufficient oil, clutch-in rolling, no bump start or plugs-out engine rotation...

There's just not much to the Boxer engine to troubleshoot. ...and its belt is miraculously strong & tight enough to stop crankshaft from turning... pull the tank, loosen alternator and drive belt, wrench the crank by hand, think goog thoughts?

Good luck with this, and let us know.

Mark
Oregon
also with 2003 XB9S

If your XB9S is yellow, you must be a genius!

Actually what you said may make more sense then many will realize. I have been having trouble getting the ABS to setup. Typically on the early boxers with ABS if you have failure to setup the first thing to check is the battery. The early systems were sensitive to low voltage. After the front end rebuild and the rear disc & pad replacement, the ABS would no longer setup. I thought maybe there was a problem with the rear sensor since they had everything apart. Knowing the battery was not the problem, I was told by the dealership to clean the connections on the starter, as that often contributed to low voltage problems.

A couple of days before this happened, the ABS suddenly started setting up. There had to have been a change in the output of the charging system, or maybe having the battery charged by riding was bringing the base voltage level up the AGM battery higher than the Battery Tender. So... if the alternater suddenly started throwing a stronger charge into the battery, maybe that was because something internally was changing. Electricity makes heat, heat fuses & melts even wire & metal. If I recall correctly that morning and the ride home from work the ABS again started failing to setup.

So, if the alternator was ill and died and something fused when the engine shut down and it had time to cool, the alternator might have seized!

God I hope your inspiration was correct! I could deal with replacing the alternator to get back rolling.

I will try with the limited tools and lack of shade to work in, to check the alternator. Thanks!!!!!

[sweatmark]

If your XB9S is yellow, you must be a genius!

Nope, originally black XB9SL bought as my wife's 1st bike (she currently rides an R1150R). The Buell's now got regular height '05 43mm Showa forks, custom Penske out back for trackdays, upgraded Goodyear belt drive, and a Drummer SS for mid-life crisis intervention.

Actually what you said may make more sense then many will realize. I have been having trouble getting the ABS to setup...

Clymer book shows alternator-to-ABS connection through the R1100R ABS relay, so misbehaving ABS computer might fault from low Vdc in charging system and/or battery. Just a guess. Liberate engine from alterator belt tyranny, and spin that crankshaft. Hope the little angel was right.

[dasronin]

If your XB9S is yellow, you must be a genius!

Nope, originally black XB9SL bought as my wife's 1st bike (she currently rides an R1150R). The Buell's now got regular height '05 43mm Showa forks, custom Penske out back for trackdays, upgraded Goodyear belt drive, and a Drummer SS for mid-life crisis intervention.

Off topic. My XB9S started life black and with a little time at ebay turned yellow. I have the factory race ECM & race can on mine. It is my "escape pod", it takes me away from stress!

On the belt upgrade... did you buy the tool to lock the front pulley, or did you have the belt conversion done at a dealership? I want to do that upgrade and am looking for the pulley tool.

[sweatmark]

On the belt upgrade... did you buy the tool to lock the front pulley, or did you have the belt conversion done at a dealership? I want to do that upgrade and am looking for the pulley tool.

You said, "Off topic." Hey, it's your thread to do with as you like!

Much to my surprise (and fright) that front pulley pulled off without any tool required. The big capture nut on that pulley was finger-tight, which kinda concerned me! Bought the upgrade kit from Al at American Sports Bike. I did away with belt guards altogether using the "indestructible" Goodyear Hibrex belt, and now rear wheel changes are incredibly easy. (Don't ask me about front wheel service)

That finger-tight nut on the drive pulley inspired a lot a torque wrench activity and Lok-tite application. Outside of the motor/transmission, I think I've checked every fastener on the XB in the course of mods, fixes, and plain ol' tinkering.

You reminded me: I bought a monster socket for that transmission drive pulley capture nut, which was nice to have for reassembly. You can borrow it if you'd like, seein' how you're an official BeemerBueller.

<edit> Assume you also have an ether-presence on http://www.badweatherbikers.com/. I'm "sweatmark" there too.

[dasronin]

I used to bad web in the KCMOB then KCLW stormfronts.

dasbuell

I don't post there much anymore.

I have the socket for the front pulley, I just don't have the pulley tool. But thanks!

[dasronin]

The alternator spins freely. I went to the local BMW shop and stumped both of their mechanics. Same type of guesses cam drive or FUBARed crank at where the clutch assembly attaches. The final answer is crack it open and solve the mystery as NO ONE can figure out what can fail with ZERO warning and without hearing a major sound when it happened.

Thanks all.

If I crack it open, it won't be possible until spring of next year. I won't have my shop moved down from Missouri before that. At that point add to the damage gummed up injectors and a trashed fuel pump. There is no way to treat the gas and now only an apartment parking lot or a storage unit at over 100 degrees to try anything with a very small tool kit.

[sweatmark]

The alternator spins freely.

Crap. I was thinking about this all day, hoping you'd find a quick fix.