armed while riding?

[frbank6]

For those Europeans filled with trepidation at the thought of visiting our 'Cowboy-like, trigger-happy' land, I respectfully offer this news article, timely as today's headlines:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,326128,00.html

It confirms what most have been saying here; the problem is not the inanimate object, it's the hand that holds it. In this case, a samurai sword, golf clubs, cricket bat and a metal bar. This kind of story makes me fearful to visit England. And, these stories have become MORE common, not less, since gun ownership was all but outlawed there.

[wncbmw]

I'd rather not associate with anyone who has the need to carry a gun to an event like a BMW bike rally.

I would imagine they carried for the ride there and back, not the rally. Now if you go to a Harley rally, you might need it . . .

[jax BMW]

I greatly appreciate the feedback and diversity of opinions regarding the concealed weapons issue. The responses were very thought provoking and insightful.

[GypsyRR]

Of course, there's always the option of carrying a taser. But.........




A guy who purchased a pocket Taser for his wife for their anniversary had this experience with the taser.

Last weekend I saw something at Larry's Pistol & Pawn Shop that sparked my interest. The occasion was our 15th anniversary and I was looking for a little something extra for my wife Julie. What I came across was a 100,000-volt, pocket/purse-sized taser. The effects of the taser were supposed to be short lived, with no long-term adverse affect on your assailant, allowing her adequate time to retreat to safety. WAY TOO COOL!

Long story short, I bought the device and brought it home.

I loaded two triple-a batteries in the darn thing and pushed the button. Nothing! I was disappointed. I learned, however, that if I pushed the button AND pressed it against a metal surface at the same time; I'd get the blue arch of electricity darting back and forth between the prongs.??

AWESOME!!!?

Unfortunately, I have yet to explain to Julie what that burn spot is on the face of her microwave!

Okay, so I was home alone with this new toy, thinking to myself that it couldn't be all that bad with only two triple-A batteries, right?! !??

There I sat in my recliner, my cat Gracie looking on intently (trusting little soul) while I was reading the directions and thinking that I really needed to try this thing out on a flesh & blood moving target. I must admit I thought about zapping Gracie (for a fraction of a second) and thought better of it. She is such a sweet cat. But, if I was going to give this thing to my wife to protect herself against a mugger, I did want some assurance that it would work as advertised. Am I wrong???

So, there I sat in a pair of shorts and a tank top with my reading glasses perched delicately on the bridge of my nose, directions in one hand, and taser in another.

The directions said that a one-second burst would shock and disorient your assailant; a two-second burst was supposed to cause muscle spasms and a major loss of bodily control; a three-second burst would reportedly make your assailant flop on the ground like a fish out of water. Any burst longer than three seconds would be wasting the batteries.? ? All the while I'm looking at this little device measuring about 5" long, less than 3/4 inch in circumference; pretty cute really and (loaded with two itsy, bitsy triple-A batteries) thinking to myself, "no possible way!"??

What happened next is almost beyond description, but I'll do my best...

I'm sitting there alone, Gracie looking on with her head dingle to one side as to say, "don't do it dumbass," reasoning that a one- second burst from such a tiny little ole thing couldn't hurt all that bad. I decided to give myself a one-second burst just for heck of it. I touched the prongs to my naked thigh, pushed the button and...

HOLY MOTHER OF GOD, WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION!!!

I'm pretty sure Hulk Hogan ran in through the side door, picked me up in the recliner, then body slammed us both on the carpet, over and over and over again. I vaguely recall waking up on my side in the fetal position, with tears in my eyes, body soaking wet, both nipples on fire, testicles nowhere to be found, with my left arm tucked under my body in the oddest position, and tingling in my legs!

The cat was standing over me making meowing sounds I had never heard before, licking my face, undoubtedly thinking to herself, "Do it again, stupid, do it again!"

Note: If you ever feel compelled to "mug" yourself with a taser, one note of caution: there is no such thing as a one-second burst when you zap yourself! You will not let go of that thing until it is dislodged from your hand by a violent thrashing about on the floor. A three-second burst would be considered conservative.

SON-OF-A-*%#... That hurt like **% !!!

A minute or so later (I can't be sure, as time was a relative thing at that point), I collected my wits (what little I had left), sat up and surveyed the landscape. My bent reading glasses were on the mantel of the fireplace. How did they get up there??? My triceps, right thigh and both nipples were still twitching My face felt like it had been shot up with Novocain, and my bottom lip weighed 88 lbs.

I'm still looking for my testicles! I'm offering a significant reward for their safe return!!


Stupid.

[NoRRmad]

Heh.

Now try it with a handgun.

[Dr. Strangelove]

the advantage of samurai swords and bricks and knives and tasers is that there are very few drive by incidents, unlike guns.

And, Gypsy,
Don't tase me, sis

John

[dnat928]

NoRRmad wrote:

Interstate travel with a firearm is, therefore, permissible as long as the firearm is unloaded and in such a place that it is completely inaccessible (preferably the trunk of the vehicle).

Or under the locked RR seat???

Overall, a very thought provoking thread, thank you all...

We can see that the contributors from several other countries are taken aback at the thought of carrying a firearm, or even the thought of firearms in general, while some from here in the US see it as a tool to handle unfortunate situations. Say, like, I carry a tire plug kit, just in case, a spare headlamp bulb, just in case, a tool kit, just in case...

I do not consider myself a "cowboy" (in the slang sense no, but perhaps could be like the type GypseyRR likes, if needed ), nor trigger happy, so the characterization does not fit. All of us go about our days and our rides with a very high degree of confidence toward our personal safety, not anticipating harm from others. Having tire plugs, bulbs, tools and the like helps keep us from being helpless when adversity strikes. Those who possess a firearm may look at it the same way, be prepared, don't be caught helpless. The probability of being confronted with bodily harm from another, vastly remote, but not zero.

Again, thank you all for your replies.

[OU812]

dnat928, well said.

[GypsyRR]

Today....... I was glad I have a concealed carry license and had a concealed handgun with me. And I was glad I did not wait until the last minute to decide whether or not I could defend myself. I can. I will. Fortunately, the sight of it is sometimes as powerful a deterrent as is the use of it.

[Sunbeemer]

What happened....today?

[GypsyRR]

What happened....today?

I was not in an unsafe place. I was not where I should not have been. I did nothing to provoke or instigate the threat. I was outside in a public place. It was daylight. I never instigated verbal contact with any of them. They were total strangers. I was minding my own business.

I was obscenely sexually harassed and then threatened by a group of young men. I was in fear for my life.

And............Rich, I sent you a pm.

[Boxer]

a knife wielding gypsy type

Heh, heh.

I asked this same question 5 years ago when I was anticipating traveling alone through several states, including California. The consensus was, and still seems to be, that I'd probably be okay if I stayed out of California....and Canada.

[JCsman]

Fortunately, the sight of it is sometimes as powerful a deterrent as is the use of it.

Gypsy,

I'm glad you were preparred and willing to act. Thank goodness the event came out as well as it apparently did.

Sometimes my gender does not account itself well.

You make a very true statement about deterrence. There appear to be many instances where evidence of being able to defend oneself avoids actual violence. Not always reported, rarely measured, but a factor in my personal choices.

[frbank6]

Gypsy,

Glad to hear things worked out and you are safe. You are correct that the mere sight of a weapon often changes criminal's minds. Reminds me:
when was the last time you heard of anyone robbing a gun store? Valuable items, attractive to thieves, but not many like the odds they face getting them away from armed shopkeepers. Not much of a shoplifting problem at the gunshow, either.

[Caroanbill]

This threads in motorcycle fora are a bit like train wrecks ... I want to run away, but morbid fascination draws me back in ...

The US view of guns - among folk who appear to be as rational as any other - is simply fascinating. Elsewhere in the OECD / developed world (including Canada) this topic would only be addressed by the lunatic fringe - and the only guys asking about guns on bikes would be those who ride and associate oustide the law, or sympathise with those who do. Yet quite normal riders from the US discuss concealed handguns as though it was a preferred brand of wrench. (I'm afraid that I'm rather too analytical to be able to compare a weapon designed to take a human life with a tool designed to aid humans .. )

Here, we just don't have gun crime affecting ordinary citizens. No ifs, no buts, it just doesn't - the small proportions touched by spillovers from the criminal community aren't statistically significant. As I understand it, that's true of most other western democracies. I grew up on a farm where many farmers (not us) had a gun as a tool (ie basic rifle or shotgun), but these were never shown or brandished. No ordinary citizen, save a target shooter, would ever own a pistol or want to (can't anyway, they're totally banned) - if you did, you'd be considered stupid or dangerous or both. A concealed pistol means you're a very, very serious criminal, and almost certainly a sociopath or psychpath as well. Consequently, we don't live or lives worrying about guns in other hands - we simply never, ever see them.

... and we have lower murder rates to prove it. I'm not saying humans are so different, merely that without easy access to seriously lethal means, we don't have the consequences, or the culture that goes with it.

The 'gun lobby' in OZ is a strange fringe often associated with the loopy christian Right - who aren't mainsteam here. In toto, loopy christian right, 4WD/fishing/Shooting lobby and the plain-loony right (neo nazi and the rest) get 6 to 8% of the first-preference vote (Australia has compulsory voting using a preferential system). You nice folks just wouldn't fit into that group, would you? ('cepting the weird debates in Patrick's playhouse - ouch!)

If a motorcyclist asked this question here, the first reaction might well be "what if it goes off?". That's my first thought - having had a younger brother shot in a stupid accident (so, yes, I know what I'm talking about ).

So - a SERIOUS question - given the views expressed above that a gun carried needs to be ready to use - what if it DOES go off? Safety catches, dingle, and all of that aren't exactly reliable precautions - only empty chambers and magazines, even removing firing pins or breaches (a requirement here) can really prevent an accident. An Uzi in an airbox is asking for a catastrophic consequence (that was the train wreck that dragged me in). ATGATT + firearm just doesn't compute ... ???

Geez, you yanks are on your own planet sometimes

[Boxer]

A concealed pistol means you're a very, very serious criminal, and almost certainly a sociopath or psychpath as well.

You make a good point. That's exactly what would happen here, as in other societies, if law abiding citizens were denied the right to carry. One has to be very naive to think the sociopath/psychopath criminal element will obey the gun laws.

"Hell's Angels ride bikes. Hells Angels are known for their criminal activity on bikes. We ride bikes. Lets take all the bikes away so there won't be any criminal activity on bikes." It just don't make sense, does it?

[MikeCam]

The point of the U.S. Constitution is for armed citizens to have the means, ability and wherewithal to violently resist government coercion. Small arms, be they pistols, rifles, shotguns or revolvers, are recognized means.

As in any representative democratic republic, the years have worn away the intent, the meaning, and the purpose. The fundamental principle and the staunch defense of that principle remain: the individual is first and primary above the state.

Most arguments within the U.S. focus on the result of poor training, poor upbringing, poor outcomes, and poor sample groups. Few comprehend the inherent freedom that is embodied as a first principle of liberty and limited government.

For those in other countries, I can no more comprehend your willingness to permit ascendant government over individual freedom nor to accept laws that stretch the reach of government at the expense of personal liberty than you can comprehend the U.S. approach.

Among the liberal democracies, are there any others who have placed the individual above the government?

[frbank6]

I will respond with a heavily documented, but never reported statistic relating to firearms in the US. More than 3 million times annually, a firearm is used by an ordinary citizen to PREVENT A CRIME. While it might be true that Australia has a low incidence of GUN crime, their violent crime rate, as well as that of the UK, which also banned firearms, has climbed steadily ever since. Then, you get the stories like what I posted earlier; people murdered with bricks, pipes and samurai swords.
http://www.geoffmetcalf.com/guncontrol_20010302.html

I hasten to add that there is ample evidence the problem is not firearms, but the people behind them. The Swiss are REQUIRED to keep a fully-automatic rifle in their homes. Sport shooting is very common. Yet we all recognize it as a well-run, polite civilized society. Find the difference and you will have your answer.

The US has some experience in the area of Prohibition. Making alchohol
illegal only led to the rise of organized crime. Fortunately, the government saw this error and reversed their position. Ten dollars and a
five minute trip to Home Depot would yield me ALL I need to create a
primitive, but lethal, firearm. Unless someone can seriously propose
a way to exterminate basic knowledge that is now over 800 years old, 'gun control' will simply not work.

[wncbmw]

MikeCam expresses very precisely what I said way back on page 3!

I said:

To sum it up, many of us believe only citizens are allowed to own guns; subjects are not. It is a freedom thing. I will keep my criticisms of your country and/or cultures out of my posts and would appreciate the same respect.

It isn't about self defense, it isn't about hunting. It is about your government having a health fear of it's citizens. After all, that's how this country started in the first place!

If you are willing to be a subject instead of a citizen, you are welcome to it!

[Dr. Strangelove]

When we get this settled, maybe we can taclke that abortion thing and then the Palestinians and Isrealis--why can't they just like each other?

But, seriously, a point that hasn't been made. On the North American continent there are different fauna with which we deal. Some of these are quite exotic and equally deadly.

Although endangered, the Southeast American Giant Squirrel (Squirrellus eatchanutsoff) is a known predator that terrorizes eastern Texas to the Florida panhandle. The "Texas red" shown below had been attacking chicken farms and goatherds, decimating livestock. They have been reported to attack man.
Unfortunately for them, they are relatively easy to take down because of the anatomy of their chest wall. Also, unfortunately for them, they are very tasty, and are good in a nice gumbo or served with grits and eggs, hell, most anyway you could fix chicken. Bar-b-q is nice, too

You wouldn't want to meet this guy on a twisty.
Hope this helps
John