Gears and RPM - please spell it out for me!

cruiser · Post by **cruiser** » Mon Aug 27, 2007 7:56 am

OK, I've asked about this before, but didn't get a definitive answer....

In a previous post I lamented the fact that the R1150R doesn't have a gear indicator. In reply a few people told me to simply use the tacho/speed relationship to determine which gear you're in.

For obvious reasons 1st and 6th gear are not a problem and I understand, of course, about the relationship between road speed and engine RPM. However, for a given gear, the range of engine rpm can be quite wide and 'overlap' for adjacent gears. So, can anyone please explain to me how you can reliably and 'easily' tell which gear you're in without having to memorise speed/rpm ranges?

Being able to do this would significantly improve my riding pleasure, especially at urban speeds

Thanks in advance
cruiser

Post by **zooomart** » Mon Aug 27, 2007 8:25 am

Cruiser,

I usually don't think about it, because I just keep the RPM between 3-5k. I have overdrive so I know when I'm in fifth, second is still low. Whether I'm in third or fourth just doesn't matter as long as the RPM is right.
The bike doesn't care which gear, it likes any RPM above lugging to redline. You like any speed that keeps you upright and ticket free. That's the window.

cruiser · Post by **cruiser** » Mon Aug 27, 2007 8:36 am

Thanks Zooomart, but I've lost count of the times I've 'crunched' painfully into 1st gear whilst slowing down, thinking I was in 3rd when in fact I was in 2nd!

I don't think your advice, helpful though it is, would reduce this tendency. This is my main problem.

Post by **DSKYZD** » Mon Aug 27, 2007 10:40 am

Throttle blips when downshifting to match engine speed with wheel speed should help.

geothepencil · Post by **geothepencil** » Mon Aug 27, 2007 11:01 am

Guess you could print up a little chart and attach it to the tank or somewhere. I have really gotten spoiled by those gear indicators, but can usually tell from experience whats going on. You will too in time I would think.

geo

Rog(UK) - Yorkshire Dales · Mon Aug 27, 2007 12:47 pm

Hi Michael. I understand what you are saying, in that you want to know what gear you are in , but I have to ask why you need to know. I think this might be the reason you have not had what you regard as a satisfactory reply.

i can't speak for other riders, but I don't care what gear I am in as long as the bike is talking to me and telling me it is happy. Unlike some others, I will burble along quite happily at 1500 revs at very light throttle and the engine telling me it is happy at that. You'll soon know when it isn't because, again, it will speak to you.

When I am slowing down from whatever speed, I know when I need a lower gear and blip the throttle and change gear accordingly. It doesn't matter whether I am in 6/5/4/3/ or 2 it makes no difference to me.

The goal is to keep the engine revs at a level where you always have decent acceleration available to you should an emergency occur. I think it is just a case of getting used to the bike - and I am not trying to be derogatory here in any way because I have a number of riding faults which I would like to cure.

One of the humorous sides of my not knowing which gear I am in (up to a point) is that I often try to change into 7th (and then hope that the rider behind me has not noticed

Ride safely,

Rog

Post by **zooomart** » Mon Aug 27, 2007 12:48 pm

cruiser wrote:Thanks Zooomart, but I've lost count of the times I've 'crunched' painfully into 1st gear whilst slowing down, thinking I was in 3rd when in fact I was in 2nd!
I don't think your advice, helpful though it is, would reduce this tendency. This is my main problem.

Are you down-shifting through the gears and engine braking to come to a stop? In your example above, if I sensed ( with the clutch pulled in) that I went into first, because of the "clunk", I would just shift into second before I let out the clutch. In the city I tend to coast to stay in the traffic flow.

Post by **Biff's R** » Mon Aug 27, 2007 5:12 pm

Rog(UK) wrote: One of the humorous sides of my not knowing which gear I am in (up to a point) is that I often try to change into 7th (and then hope that the rider behind me has not noticed

Rog

I have the lower 6th gear on my current Roadster, and I do the same thing. You would think thaty after 24k miles, I would realize that there is no longer a major jump between 5th and 6th gear.

Post by **iowabeakster** » Mon Aug 27, 2007 5:29 pm

This may not help, but worth mentioning. Try using a lighter touch on the gear shift (in regards to down shifting when you are unsure if you are in second or third). If you are in second, you will hit neutral (not first)...no crunchy.

Lion_Lady · Post by **Lion_Lady** » Mon Aug 27, 2007 7:02 pm

Hmmm. I've never understood the "need" for a gear indicator: If the engine is lugging, then downshift. If it is overrevving, then upshift. Can't get into 6th until you're doing 55+ mph (or thereabouts).

Coming to a stop (downshifting): squeeze clutch, tap, tap, tap, the shifter until you're in first.

P

Post by **mcollect** » Mon Aug 27, 2007 7:11 pm

I always blib my throttle to raise the rpms when downshifting, so I don't get an unexpected rear lockup. The only bike that had a gear indicator was a 1970 Triumph, it was on the tranny case never learned how to look at it when riding. The time spent riding will obviate the need to know what gear you are in, listen to the rpms it will tell you when to shift. practice practice practice

sloopy_farklehump · Post by **sloopy_farklehump** » Mon Aug 27, 2007 7:11 pm

If I understand you correctly, this is your issue:

You're riding at X kph/mph at X rpm and you need to take a sharp turn onto another street. You know that 2nd would be the perfect gear for that turn. The engine would slow you down enough, but not too much, and allow you to roll on smoothly through the turn. You don't want to downshift 1 gear at a time until you hit the proper entry speed to commence your turn. You want to roll up to the turn, pull in your clutch, tap the shifter 1, 2 or 3 times, release the clutch and start your turn.

Have I got it?

Samiam · Post by **Samiam** » Mon Aug 27, 2007 7:29 pm

Rog (UK) is spot on. Let me begin by saying that my last bike was a '74 Sportster 4-speed that left no doubt what gear you were in. When I got my BMW Roadster, I was intimidated by SIX - god-o-mighty- SIX gears! As I said before, I quickly learned that 4th gear synchronizes the MPH and RPM needles. From 4th, I learbed to go up or down according to needs.

Going up and down Table Rock Mountain ( highest point in S.C.) has taught me to fine-tune my gear-senses: My Roadster is happy on the level secondary roads at 2,500 RPM in 5th and even 6th gear. People may scream about carbon build-up at these low RPMs but I am relying on German engineering to keep my engine from self-destructing through carbonizing. The engine just purrs.

On Table Rock, I hear the engine asking for more revs: it is happiest between 4,000 and 7,000. On a hard, steep, switchback the engine seems to ask for 4,000 minimum and is really happiest at 5,500 tp 7,000. I was at first reluctant to rev to 7,000 but the rev-limiter is above this and the engine sings at higer revs, just like my Miata, so I don't worry about it. Whatever your speed, just keep the revs around 5,000 and the engine will tell you what it wants.

Perhaps you are my age and were told that an MG-A engine was good for three minutes total at 6,000 RPM. The BMW Boxster engine is engineered to last hundreds upon hundreds of HOURS at 6,000 revs so don't worry about the revs.

Keep the loaded engine above 4,000 revs in any gear and you will have a long and happy relationship with your engine. Don't sweat the unloaded lower revs but for goodness sakes don't let the engine buck and labor. You can detect the bad signs: if you can't, you need to go back to a Harley.

phing · Post by **phing** » Thu Aug 30, 2007 11:46 pm

A few thoughts. (Samiam, my last cycle was a 75 xlh rigid, gotta love em) As for gear indicators, they are not really necessary, for all the reasons mentioned above. However, there are a couple techniques that will help you know for sure which gear you are in at anytime. First (I no it sounds to simple) but count them. If you have a windy road, where lots of gear changes are required, count them, in your head; 4...3...2...3...4...5... If you do this for a while you will eventually know by sound what gear you are in.
Not from the engine alone; but from the engine noise combined with wind noise. It sounds odd.
While learning to fly sailplanes, I got slapped in the back of the head for refering to the instruments. I wanted to be sure of correct pattern airspeed. The instructor said to go by the sound of the wind noise to determine speed; and keep my eyes on my surroundings. The racket caused by the wind will tell you alot if you spend a little time paying attention to it.
If you're helmet and fairing are constants, by paying attention to the dull or not so dull roar of the wind, and your engine note, it doesn't take very long before these indicators become automated.
It takes a little work for a while, but pays off. You can make the knowledge of which gear you are in innate and automated. When is the last time riding in a car you actually had to think about turning your turn signal on ?

Just a thought.

( a senior editor (and former racer) of Car and Driver magazine once wrote that he thought speedometers shouldn't be in cars because you never have to learn what various speeds look and sound like.
to quote obion ken nobi "use the force" ha