Is BMW weaning us off Telelever?

[Grey Thumper]

First the oddly-named RNineT, and now it seems the water-cooled R1200R and R1200ST will have conventional forks. Makes you wonder why some models will have Telelever (GS and RT so far) and some won't.

[SF_Hooligan]

First the oddly-named RNineT, and now it seems the water-cooled R1200R and R1200ST will have conventional forks. Makes you wonder why some models will have Telelever (GS and RT so far) and some won't.

R1200ST? Source? I haven't heard about this. And the "spy photos" of the "next R" aren't necessarily conclusive. The RT and GS still have Telelever, so I doubt BMW is trying to wean anyone off it. However, I could see putting conventional forks on the R—lots of roadster type folks who haven't ridden a Telelever bike seem to have a hard time coming to terms with it.

[Catchina]

It's a matter of making the Telelever fit with the two radiators, surely BMW will figure it out.

[Grey Thumper]

R1200ST? Source? I haven't heard about this. And the "spy photos" of the "next R" aren't necessarily conclusive. The RT and GS still have Telelever, so I doubt BMW is trying to wean anyone off it. However, I could see putting conventional forks on the R—lots of roadster type folks who haven't ridden a Telelever bike seem to have a hard time coming to terms with it.

Like with the R1200R, it's media speculation based on spy shots (in the case of the R1200ST, the dudes at MCN were speculating in the March 19 issue).

http://www.motorcyclenews.com/upload/30 ... -mar19.jpg

I do hope the "spy shots" (of both the R and ST) aren't conclusive. Telelever is such an interesting and distinct system, and I associate it with BMW boxers as much as I do cylinders that stick out in the wind. I hope they find a workaround to have Telelever AND water-cooled radiators on all boxer models. They do have the F800, S1000RR, and (limited edition?) NineT if someone wants a standard/naked/roadster-style bike with traditional forks.

[deilenberger]

The tiny ST photo shown doesn't convince me there isn't telelever.. and actually it would be a surprise if they resurrected the ST given how it was a miserable sales failure last time.

[Woland]

how it was a miserable sales failure last time.

Since the reason of its failure is easily identifiable in the most grotesque headlight ever, lets hope they resurrect it and doesn't repeat their mistake.

I for one would be interested in a BMW sport-touring boxer that is more sporty than the RT and more "toury" than the R.

[dbrick]

I for one would be interested in a BMW sport-touring boxer that is more sporty than the RT and more "toury" than the R.

[sweatmark]

First the oddly-named RNineT, and now it seems the water-cooled R1200R and R1200ST will have conventional forks. Makes you wonder why some models will have Telelever (GS and RT so far) and some won't.

BMW description of water-cooled RT:

The new BMW R 1200 RT is built around a chassis which, like the engine, is based on the proven components equipped on the R 1200 GS. The new frame with mountings for the BMW telelever and BMW paralever now features a continuous design to make it more rigid, resulting in a further major improvement in the directional stability of the R 1200 RT. By stiffening the mounting for the spring elements, the chassis response is more sensitive with improved feedback for the rider. The large steering angle of 36 degrees to each side results in a very tight turning circle by tourer standards, enabling easy, straightforward maneuvering. By optimizing the position of the bike’s center of gravity, handling is now even sharper than on the previous model, which was already outfitted for very keen performance. What’s more, the ride has been made even more precise to generate even greater handling reserves when putting the bike’s sporting abilities to the test.

Confident statement regarding handling...

But I just cannot see Motorrad pushing another boxer ST model. The hexhead ST was, well, challenged by meager market and aesthetics that suggested the bike must have "a nice personality".

[deilenberger]

Actually - If you wanted something sportyish between an R and an RT - BMW used to have the RS. I had an '04 R1150RS - the last of the breed. Great bike except for the engine (it BUZZED so bad I found it painful to ride.) I still prefer the roadster to the RS though..

[Grey Thumper]

[quote="Woland"]I for one would be interested in a BMW sport-touring boxer that is more sporty than the RT and more "toury" than the R.[/quote



The R1150RS was one of my favorite Beemers ever, so it would be great if they could come up with a contemporary version of it.

[deilenberger]

More on the water-slop R1200R: http://www.motorradonline.de/news/erlko ... xer/517100

No telelever = no interest at all to me. It looks like an R-nine-T with the water-slop engine to me. Meh.. I have no desire to go backwards in suspension technology.

[hjsbmw]

No telelever = no interest at all to me.

+1
Makes me feel more like I am sitting exactly on what I want to sit on.
10+ years ago I was turned off by the dad look of the telelever, so I assume they want to appeal to a younger crowd (entirely judging the world around me based on my internals; it happens).

[deilenberger]

Funny..

A friend who is a notable BMW collector/restorer went to his local dealership fully intending to buy an R-nine-T. Sitting next to it on the showroom floor was a 2013 R1200R "Classic" (big stripe, wire rims) with 88 miles on it..

Guess what he ended up deciding to buy? His thinking in looking at both of them was - R-9-T - no bags, no rack, no way to carry anything. R12R Classic - it really appealed to him. He is normally a form over function sort of guy too..

I'll be very interested to hear how he likes it when he picks it up..

[sweatmark]

My hope is that a "classic" boxer R is retained in rhe BMW lineup, with the best oil-cooled, low parts count, high reliability, utilitarian (ie. factory bags fitment) configuration. Stripped down or option-loaded, I'd bet there will be an ongoing market for such a bike for many years to come.

As for the water boxer roadster, I would place my deposit tomorrow if a new version of the R1200 Megamoto should appear. That new motor is strong! Had the chance last week to ride a new R1200GS loaner, and was suitably impressed... and -truth be told- I hated the water cooling change when first announced.

[Sander Abernathy]

After hearing everyone sing the praises of the telelever I have to say I don't miss it one bit on the RnineT. Maybe the telelever is better than USD forks, maybe not. I just know I much prefer the handling of the RnineT. That could be due to other factors such as the change in the geometry but I don't find a problem on the bike for which the telelever is a solution.

All I know is the RnineT is easier to put on a line and easier to change directions with and there is no more dive under hard braking than with the R1200R.

Could the telelever be a solution to the bad suspensions of years gone by that is no longer needed because newer suspensions don't have the problems the telelever was offered to fix?

I hope they continue to offer it because choices are good but it isn't something I would look for in a bike. I'd be more likely to avoid it than seek it out.

Regardless, real bikes have Earle's forks.

[Catchina]

Sander, does the RnineT have linked brakes like the R or did you have to "retrain" your right foot?
I have seen some discussion about that, but no definitive answer.

[badbs101]

After hearing everyone sing the praises of the telelever I have to say I don't miss it one bit on the RnineT. Maybe the telelever is better than USD forks, maybe not. I just know I much prefer the handling of the RnineT. That could be due to other factors such as the change in the geometry but I don't find a problem on the bike for which the telelever is a solution.

All I know is the RnineT is easier to put on a line and easier to change directions with and there is no more dive under hard braking than with the R1200R.

Could the telelever be a solution to the bad suspensions of years gone by that is no longer needed because newer suspensions don't have the problems the telelever was offered to fix?

I hope they continue to offer it because choices are good but it isn't something I would look for in a bike. I'd be more likely to avoid it than seek it out.

+1 Although I would add that the telever is rock solid stable in a straight line on the freeway. I too hope they continue to offer it because it is uniquely BMW. Front end dive is still marginally better on the telever but not enough to tip the scales in its favor. When turning or absorbing bumps, high-quality modern conventional forks are better due to less unsprung weight.

All else aside, am I the only one that thinks the R1200R looks better than the R9T? To me, the gold forks look a bit parts binnish and the overall design doesn't flow as well. JMO.

[Sander Abernathy]

Sander, does the RnineT have linked brakes like the R or did you have to "retrain" your right foot?
I have seen some discussion about that, but no definitive answer.

It does not have linked brakes.

On the R12R I was always lazy about using the rear brakes. I knew they activated when I grabbed a fistful of lever and I would periodically remind myself to use the rears but I was never as good about it as I should have been. The ABS and the front brakes on the R1200R are so amazingly good that in a straight line you can go from 60 to zero in about 18 feet it seems just grabbing the front brake. If you aren't travelling in a straight line you shouldn't be braking and certainly not hard and linked rears doesn't help that.

However, as I understand it, the rear brakes on the R12R are linked at 50%. So if you fully engage the front brakes the rears are 50% engaged. If you fully engage the fronts though you're not going to notice the rears being engaged at all if they are only 50% engaged since the fronts are much more powerful and the bike is going to have 90% of the weight on the front wheel. The same is true no matter how much you engage the fronts. The power of the fronts overwhelms any sensation of linked braking from the rear. As a result, I never really could tell if the rears were activated or not.

That impression remains the same after the transition. I didn't notice the rear brake linkage before and I don't notice the absence of rear brake linkage now.

[Sander Abernathy]

All else aside, am I the only one that thinks the R1200R looks better than the R9T? To me, the gold forks look a bit parts binnish and the overall design doesn't flow as well. JMO.

It's a matter of taste and I think both look really great in their own way. I loved the R1200R. Had three of them but sold the last one and went without a bike for a year because it just didn't excite me anymore. I wanted something that looked more like a super/naked bike and a cafe racer. Bought the first R9T I could because it does what the R1200R didn't do and most of that involves the cosmetics. Binnish is a fair description. The gold forks in particular literally came out of the parts bin but that's the style lately. Big gold forks on nakeds. For whatever reason I like it.

Neither bike is for everyone and people enjoy the looks of both. The difference is that people much younger than the average BMW rider stop and take photos of the R9T with amazing frequency. Almost never happened with the R1200R. Friday night t happened three times while my bike was outside a restaurant where I was eating. Two of the three people that took a photo did a close up of the forks and cylinder head. So binnish or not, it attracts favorable attention.

[badbs101]

It must be just me then. The new R9T seems to be grabbing a lot of positive attention and much of it is centered on its looks. A small part of the reason I bought a BMW is that it is a slight bit different and doesn't necessarily appeal to everyone.