Filing DOT complaints regarding the fuel strip

[Dr. Strangelove]

Recently there seems to be renewed interest in filing complaints about the fuel strips that work for some and never for others, and sometimes sort of work maybe. Coming from an 1150, with its totally reliable low fuel light coupled with using my odometer, the difficulty of getting a reading of fuel remaining on the 12 is more than an annoyance. It's distracting and as such can be a safety issue, especially if you run out of gas at an inopportune time.

It is easy to file a complaint with the US DOT NHTSA. go to this link https://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/ivoq/index.cfm and follow the prompts.

The New YorK Times reports that R series bikes are already being investigated for fuel leaks.
http://wheels.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/11 ... torcycles/
and that was after only 28 complaints.

If you have or have had the problem please report. There are many many of us that still are dealing with it and your input will help us. We are a community.

I am enjoying the bike, but I would enjoy it more if I could forget about running out of gas. But, there is no way to not think of it as it has happened twice in three months of ownership and two fuel strips.
The "gauge" is unreliable.
The low fuel light is integrated into the fuel strip, so consequently it is unreliable, and may not even illuminate even when the tank is dry.
Using the odometer can be marginal help as it seems the fuel consumption varies pretty widely depending on conditions, like headwind, or speed. I have had a tankful last as few as 180 miles and as many as 222 miles with some gas left. Considering that range is 42 miles ( that range may be wider ), that 42 miles difference represents on average 1 gallon of gas consumed or 20% of the total tank. It may be illogical, but one way to look at this is to say that there is a 1 in 5 chance you will run out of gas using the odometer method depending on what number you choose to refuel. And those numbers were highway miles, do I need to think in different terms when in the city? Probably. Or, I suppose you can spend your time at the gas station, filling every hundred miles to be sure you don't run out.

Interestingly enough, there was a immediate recall of the 5 series BMW car when their gas gauges were faulty and the national highway safety agency called it a safety issue. Is it any less so for a motorcycle? Could argue that it is more of one.

This bad/faulty design is complained about on all bmw forums, it's all over. There are those who say to use the odometer, but that does not work for me. I do use the odometer.
So, please consider filing a complaint with the DOT.
Thanks
John

[omg1010]

Hello John,

what is your intention if I may ask? That a manufacturer should be forced to call back a product for every little flaw discovered? I do not think there is a problem with the low fuel warning. It appears that the same is working well (although not very precise) on 1000s if not 10000s of BMWs hence why taking out the machine-gun? The BMW low fuel warning seems to be rather conservative and warn you way before running out of fuel ... During my 14 years history I have never ever run out of fuel.

If there is a safety-related problem I would understand but for this?

Brgds
Oliver

[jkhomes]

No thank you.

[roadfool]

Are they still using the fuel strips in current production models?

One of my bitches about BMW Motorrad is that they never admit to a design problem, even after they have redesigned the part.

Regards, Paul

[Martyn]

[quote="roadfool"]Are they still using the fuel strips in current production models?/quote]
Reverted to a float type in the RT & GS/GSA range, but it's not a retro-fit item. The 1200R still uses the strip.

[BoxerSteve]

If there is a safety-related problem I would understand but for this?

I'd say running out of fuel unexpectedly could be a rather large safety issue in certain situations, like being in the left lane of a busy freeway, or making a tight left turn without much room for oncoming traffic. If your motor quits on you at times like these, it could be bad.

That being said, I've never run out of gas either on a motorcycle. On the R1200R, I fuel up after about 175 miles or so no matter what the fuel gauge says. Until the last couple of bikes I've owned, I've never even had a fuel gauge and somehow survived. My GS only seems to go about 150 miles or so before the fuel warning light comes on, but then it only takes a little over three gallons to fill. Apparently the fuel warning light on the GS is pretty conservative and I probably have lots of gas left when it comes on.

[Dr. Strangelove]

Hi, Oliver
I appreciate your response.

what is your intention if I may ask?

To have on my r1200r as reliable an indicator that I am coming close to running out of gas as was present on the 1150. Right now I do not have that, the low fuel light is integral to the fuel strip functioning properly. BMWNA when called says they've not heard of this and take the info.

That a manufacturer should be forced to call back a product for every little flaw discovered?

Not necessarily, but if the failures were at some critical number, then yes. This is not a hidden issue with customers. It's out there.
This is not a "little" flaw on mine. perhaps on yours it is minor, not on mine. The most recent episode, as I was slowing down from about 80 using engine braking to bleed off some speed and ready to pull in the clutch to coast to a smooth stop on the shoulder, I hit a particularly severe "rumble strip" between the road and the shoulder. It felt like I had lost pressure in both tires. Continuing to decelerate in 6th, I was distracted by the noise and vibration coming from the wheels, and still in 6th slowed too quickly and when I stopped had a tipover against the retaining wall on the interstate ruining my windscreen and bracket. The rest of the bike was unhurt. I was unhurt. So, I think if I had gone into neutral instead of slowing from 80 with the gearbox, fully planning of going into neutral when I slowed sufficiently, I would have had a smoother "landing," but that is speculation. I could've gone into neutral at 80, but would that have been prudent? Don't know. It would not have occurred were there gas in the tank, and given a reliable method of assessing remaining fuel, there would have been gas in the tank. Not a minor issue. Not a little flaw for me.

I do not think there is a problem with the low fuel warning. It appears that the same is working well (although not very precise) on 1000s if not 10000s of BMWs hence why taking out the machine-gun?

Contacting a third party to help is not gunning fot the company. For many, NOT ALL, but for many it is a serious issue. My bike was purchased out of warranty, so I had to pay to have the first strip replaced, which I did, giving motorrad an opportunity to make it right. I will go back again, now under warranty, to give them another opportunity. But in the meantime, I feel certain there are at least a handfull of r1200r riders who have this ongoing problem, and your next statement exhibits the frustration of it[/quote]

The BMW low fuel warning seems to be rather conservative and warn you way before running out of fuel ... During my 14 years history I have never ever run out of fuel.

I have not ridden as long as you, but in my 100,000 miles on my r1150r I only ran out once, and that was to see what it felt like! The low fuel light worked well on the 1150. It was a quick and easy learning experience on the 1150. That is NOT the case on my copy of the 1200. Last Saturday, when the tank went dry and the engine died at just under 80 mph on an interstate, the OBC showing 119 miles left on the tank, there was no "conservative" low warning light. I was planning on exiting the highway to refuel within 5 miles, because I really didn't believe the 119. There were 202, all highway, miles on the odometer when it died. On the first strip, the low fuel light went on at 40 miles to go and the tank was dry at 38 miles to go...hardly a conservative warning, you think? 2 miles of "warning" isn't much. That occurred at 180 highway miles on the tank. And, again, on the most recent episode (and there were only 2 ) there was NO LIGHT whatsoever.

I would love to be able to learn how to read the gas remaining, but so far any consistency has been missing and that is the problem. The remaining fuel is a sword of Democles on this bike, fortunately for you, not on yours or for many others, but for me, yes, a problem.

If there is a safety-related problem I would understand but for this?

Being stranded is a safety issue. Losing power is an issue. Suppose it happens when there is no shoulder, or in an intersection and you need power to maneuver out of heavy traffic. Those are safety issues. I am not looking for any gain, or encouraging government encroachment, or any thing other than a more reliable means of knowing when to refuel.

But I appreciate your comments, really. I would love for someone to tell me how to decipher fuel remaining when the low fuel light doesn't work, the miles to empty doesn't work, and the number of miles ridden can vary widely before empty. Maybe I am missing some technique to accomplish this? If so, please educate me, because my solution now is carrying a half gallon of gas in my topcase.

And, yep, the GS and the RT s have a float again (wonder why?), while the roadster still has the strip, and reports continue of it failing out of the showroom.

John

[Dr. Strangelove]

On the R1200R, I fuel up after about 175 miles or so no matter what the fuel gauge says.

hey, BoxerSteve,
Thanks
That is the number I came up with also, but honestly, it's a WAG, sort of, but based on experience, and bad experience is the best teacher.

I am supposing that 175 is your highway number? If you're doing a lot of stop and go city riding, do you have another number?

John

[Anyname]

I agree with John that BMW owes us a real fix. My fuel strip failed after only 1,600 miles. That's ridiculous on bike that's been in production for 6 or more years.

[BoxerSteve]

On the R1200R, I fuel up after about 175 miles or so no matter what the fuel gauge says.

hey, BoxerSteve,
Thanks
That is the number I came up with also, but honestly, it's a WAG, sort of, but based on experience, and bad experience is the best teacher.

I am supposing that 175 is your highway number? If you're doing a lot of stop and go city riding, do you have another number?

John

John, that's the number I use for city riding. For highway it's more like 200 miles before I need to fill up but I fill up after 175 anyway. So I guess it's my city and highway number. Though I avoid highways whenever possible - me no likee the superslab for the most part.

Next you might ask how do I know the numbers? By the fuel warning light of course .

Luckily, my fuel strip is working. It did stop working for a few days (and the constant low fuel warning light was annoying) but magically started working again when I took it the dealer, and has worked ever since.

[Dr. Strangelove]

Thanks, Steve, for the laugh. I really did laugh out loud.

I need to do my own valve adj and TB sync, to see if that improves my perf/mileage any. Don't know who has been doing it, but prob the dealer??

I doubt I could use 175 for city, too much stop and go. I am trying some Techron additive, see if that makes a difference, and going to fill with Chevron Premium. It's like the strip is way out of calibration. Maybe the Techron and Chevron Premium will coax it back?

Or maybe the heating element has gone kaput. I was up in Arkansas a few days ago and when I was riding home the ambient temp was as low as 23.9 F. The previously (I think) working second strip, seemed to start acting supremely optimistic re miles left during that ride. Or maybe got some bad gas, who knows, but it failed.

This learning curve is far steeper than it should be, and it should not be there at all.

[zackvis]

I have never had a problem with my 09's 30000km fuel strip, it is quite accurate as well +- 10km out.
Maybe it could be bad fuel additives or a temp issue affecting them as the temps in Sydney does not go below 6deg c.I only fill up on 95 octane ,no ethenol for this baby .
ps. does any body know the part no. for a low comfort seaT for a R1200R 2012 ?

[Dr. Strangelove]

I have never had a problem with my 09's 30000km fuel strip, it is quite accurate as well +- 10km out.
Maybe it could be bad fuel additives or a temp issue affecting them as the temps in Sydney does not go below 6deg c.I only fill up on 95 octane ,no ethenol for this baby .

that's good and provides some hope that a new strip, again, may address the problem successfully; I'm not holding my breath.
OUr premium fuel is at best 91-sometimes 93, and almost always contains at least 10% ethanol

[atractaspis]

I have never had a problem with my 09's 30000km fuel strip, it is quite accurate as well +- 10km out.
Maybe it could be bad fuel additives or a temp issue affecting them as the temps in Sydney does not go below 6deg c.I only fill up on 95 octane ,no ethenol for this baby .

that's good and provides some hope that a new strip, again, may address the problem successfully; I'm not holding my breath.
OUr premium fuel is at best 91-sometimes 93, and almost always contains at least 10% ethanol

Octane rating between the US and Australia is different .. Australia like most countries use the RON method of measurement while the US (and Canada I believe) use the AKI method. So 91 in the US is about equivalent to 95 in Europe or Australia.

I am not sure what the big deal is to report this issue with the fuel strip. It's not like Dr. Strangelove is trying to get people to report that BMW needs to stop making motorcycles (like I vaguely remember someone else on this forum seemed to want).. it's just a way of making an official report to make BMW aware of this issue. Maybe it is something that is more common in the US and has something to do with the fuel here and this way something can be done. When researching which bike to buy, the only issue I came across repeatedly on different forums about the R1200R was the fuel strip issue. Didn't keep me from wanting this bike and getting it. Glad I am aware of it and will watch out for that issues. It's been discussed here, on another R1200R forum and on the BMW MOA forums as well.

I did have a bike before where the only way to know if it was running out of gas was that it actually ran out of gas and then I had to switch to the reserve tank. I obviously learned quickly the 'save' number of miles before having to get gas again.. made me stop for gas more often than I probably needed to, but after one time of running out of gas when going 75 mph while passing a truck and having to turn the knob to the reserve tank while doing that, I learned the hard way to be more careful in terms of fueling up. Will not trust the gauge on my bike, but will hope that mine is not one of the ones that will go bad.

So I guess it's a good idea to report it if you want to (again no reason to feel defensive.. this is just a suggestion for people who want to report this) and if it ends up being an issue for more than just a few people than maybe BMW looks into it more seriously...maybe they won't... but if they do then it might be a simple solution like a gas additive after all.. or they decide to replace it for bikes out of warranty.

One of the things I just kept on hearing over and over again from R1200R owners is to be aware of the fuel strip issues. Every dealer I mentioned that to so far knew exactly what I was talking about when I asked about that issue.. not a single one acted surprised and as if they never heard of that issue with this bike before.. so it seems to be not that uncommon to say it's just a tiny little fluke that happened to a few bikes out there.

So I would say report it or don't .. no need to get upset .. people obviously still love the bike after their fuel strip has gone bad several times. If it is a ridiculous complaint then nothing will be done ... end of story.

One mechanic for BMW motorcycles mentioned to me something about a gas additive to prevent fuel strip issues.. have to double check on that again.. I was too exited about my new bike to pay attention to what he was saying about that at the time. First time I saw my new baby and I was too busy drooling over it and falling in love with it to pay attention.
If I find out I will let you guys know.

I guess when the next R1200R (1250?) come out and they won't use a fuel strip anymore we know that it was an issue..

Talking about a water cooled R12R.. I was at the motorcycle show in Indy and according to the BMW people there the R1200R won't get the water cooled engined next year yet. They said that the RT would be the next one and after that the R... I guess we will know by the end of the year...

[Bob Ain't Stoppin']

To say that BMW is not aware of the fuel strip issue is pretty silly. They know exactly how many strips they supply through the parts chain. Plus, many of those strips are warranty items and get approved by the factory before (or after) the work is done. The failure cause has been researched ad nausium and there is no proven link to fuel content (ethanol etc) or country of use. Also, the techron preventative concept doesn't fly.

[motoracer8]

I had a 85 K100RS that had what BMW called a thermister that measured the temp of the fuel to turn on the low fuel lights.
They worked for awhile untill the fuel got hot, whitch it often was in a K100. Mine was changed a couple of times but they were never reliable.

I bought another K100 in 90, it had a float for fuel level, reliable and accurate.

Sometimes I think motorcycle makers including BMW go looking for answers when no one asked the question.

[Dr. Strangelove]

To say that BMW is not aware of the fuel strip issue is pretty silly. They know exactly how many strips they supply through the parts chain. Plus, many of those strips are warranty items and get approved by the factory before (or after) the work is done. The failure cause has been researched ad nausium and there is no proven link to fuel content (ethanol etc) or country of use. Also, the techron preventative concept doesn't fly.

Hi, Bob
Right you are.
Just to be clear, it was a stonewall answer from BMWNA. I did not mean to suggest that this was truly news to them.
Of course they would know, or could know with a click or two in Excel, just for the reasons you mention.They would know their cost to the pfennig.
So, because the NHTSA got involved with only 28 complaints on R bikes regarding fuel system leaks, it seems like maybe a good idea to report the fuel strip issues. There may be a resolution. Seems worth a try.

I wish there were a third party vendor to supply an alternative.
John

[uncle BS]

bmw does not make mistakes, and they sure as hell don't admit to making any. bmw n/a to resolve an issue? surely you jest.

[atractaspis]

and there we go.. this discussion brought out not only a few pointless and attacking remarks..but also someone who has shown a lot of hate towards BMW motorrad .. well.. let's hope that something positive happens for the people with the fuel strip issues (third party vendor?, a simple magical solution.. , or just simply the disappearance of this technology from future bmw bikes and a switch to something more reliable).

fuel strip good or bad... still an amazing bike... if it wasn't snowing and the wind blowing at 40mph I would be on it right now

[BoxerSteve]

Sometimes I think motorcycle makers including BMW go looking for answers when no one asked the question.

It was probably the corporate bean-counters who asked the question, "what can we do to reduce expenses?". The fuel strip is probably quite a bit cheaper to produce than a more traditional (and reliable) float-type arrangement. In the long run it probably isn't cheaper since it has proven to be unreliable and many have been replaced under warranty. But bean-counters (and humans in general) don't usually think much about the long run.