New Member, looking at Rockster, would welcome some advice

[irich]

Hi all, Im a Brit expat in Saudi, new to the forum with a few Rockster questions.

The local dealer has a brand new Boxster in the showroom here at a good price, around 6K sterling equivalent.

Looks like he has picked up the last of the line from somewhere as he is also doing the K1200RS for a low price too, around 5K sterling equivalent.

I'm tempted by the Rockster, really like the look and it would be a good roadster here in the cooler months I think. Not tempted by the 1200GS or GSA, way too big and expensive.

A few questions:

When was the Rockster discontinued?

If it has been sitting in a crate for 18 months or whatever is there likely to be any ill effects (bore corrosion etc) or is the bike protected until dealer set up?

Are there any typical faults that crop up or is the bike generally reliable? Important here as a breakdown in summer can be fatal.

The seat was a bit of a pain when I sat on it, are there any aftermarket or alternative models with more padding?

What is the best quality screen? Im looking at a bikini fairing or maybe slightly more to keep the bugs off and remove the wind blast from the upper body.

Ditto hard luggage. Im looking for a decent rear box and side panniers.

Is there a bash plate available?

Are there any dual purpose tyres that will fit the fat back wheel? Roads here vary between very good tarmac to stone/sandy/rocky trails so I would like to fit something like the Avon Distanzias. Anybody done this?

Thanks in advance

Richard

[riceburner]

hey Rich.

When was the Rockster discontinued? - mid 2006 IIRC.

If it has been sitting in a crate for 18 months or whatever is there likely to be any ill effects (bore corrosion etc) or is the bike protected until dealer set up? - you might have some seals dry up, but I doubt there'd be much corrosion.

Are there any typical faults that crop up or is the bike generally reliable? Important here as a breakdown in summer can be fatal. - the shaft seals can go, but I think that's the most likely thing - it's not fatal though.

The seat was a bit of a pain when I sat on it, are there any aftermarket or alternative models with more padding? - there are, but I don't know em.

What is the best quality screen? Im looking at a bikini fairing or maybe slightly more to keep the bugs off and remove the wind blast from the upper body. - Wunderlich are well liked, or make your own like I did, (from an old visor)

Ditto hard luggage. Im looking for a decent rear box and side panniers. - see BMW's pre-r1200 catalogue.

Is there a bash plate available? - you could probably fit the R1150GS bashplate - I'm tempted to try this myself.

Are there any dual purpose tyres that will fit the fat back wheel? Roads here vary between very good tarmac to stone/sandy/rocky trails so I would like to fit something like the Avon Distanzias. Anybody done this? - I think the Pirelli Scorpions would be worth looking at.

[single650]

I agree with Riceburner pretty much on all points

[irich]

Are there any typical faults that crop up or is the bike generally reliable? Important here as a breakdown in summer can be fatal. - the shaft seals can go, but I think that's the most likely thing - it's not fatal though.

Thanks for the reply riceburner, much appreciated.

I understand that there were many seal/bearing/drive shaft failures associated with a probable defective bearing assembly on some BMW's from around 2002 onwards.

Its a 2006 model, do you know whether it is likely to have the suspect shaft bearing or had BMW 'quietly' replaced it by this point?

regards

Richard

[riceburner]

Are there any typical faults that crop up or is the bike generally reliable? Important here as a breakdown in summer can be fatal. - the shaft seals can go, but I think that's the most likely thing - it's not fatal though.

Thanks for the reply riceburner, much appreciated.

I understand that there were many seal/bearing/drive shaft failures associated with a probable defective bearing assembly on some BMW's from around 2002 onwards.

Its a 2006 model, do you know whether it is likely to have the suspect shaft bearing or had BMW 'quietly' replaced it by this point?

regards

Richard

I think it's more that the seals specified weren't quite up to the job, or were perennially badly fitted, getting them replaced is usually a cure that lasts a fair while. Bearing failure is not unknown, but AFAIK pretty rare.

[irich]

Hi Riceburner

I found this earlier, from a bunch of Beemer riders and dealers in the States.

http://www.bmwlt.net/ubbthreads/showthr ... d&sb=5&o=0

Also found this:

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthre ... 7214&pp=15

There would seem to be an issue with some models and some bearings. Oils seal failure can be an initial symptom. You may be OK for 100K or your shaft, bearings and pinions may let go at 15K.

Unfortunately, BMW would appear to be doing the modern corporate honourable thing of saying nothing, and quietly fixing any failed bikes under warranty (obviously the failure rate is not high enough to justify the expense of a recall and significant mechanic time on this issue). Once out of warranty then your problem kiddo.

I've decided against a Beemer after doing my research. I have concluded that there is an unspecified design flaw with the rear drive which can result in intermittent failure.

I find it quite amazing that BMW have not taken a positive lead on the matter, particularly when you look at why most people buy a Beemer (Brand, perceived quality, engineering, reliability etc.)

If more of us stood up against this kind of thing then they would soon factor in the cost in lost sales and put the thing right.

[duke]

I bought pre-registered Rockster (registered end of June 2004) January 2006.

The bike has spent most of the time in a shop window (namely HG Welling) and possibly in the dealer's shop window as well.

The front shock died after 3 weeks. Must have just dried out. Just leaked it's guts over the front wheel. Luckily one of the options I have bought was fender extender. So very little oil ended up on the front wheel (if any).

Dealer replaced it under warranty (or got it repaired, I would never know).

No problems since then, but based on very little mileage - 4.7k miles (nearly everyday riding in all weather).

[riceburner]

Hi Riceburner

I found this earlier, from a bunch of Beemer riders and dealers in the States.

http://www.bmwlt.net/ubbthreads/showthr ... d&sb=5&o=0

Also found this:

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthre ... 7214&pp=15

There would seem to be an issue with some models and some bearings. Oils seal failure can be an initial symptom. You may be OK for 100K or your shaft, bearings and pinions may let go at 15K.

Unfortunately, BMW would appear to be doing the modern corporate honourable thing of saying nothing, and quietly fixing any failed bikes under warranty (obviously the failure rate is not high enough to justify the expense of a recall and significant mechanic time on this issue). Once out of warranty then your problem kiddo.

I've decided against a Beemer after doing my research. I have concluded that there is an unspecified design flaw with the rear drive which can result in intermittent failure.

I find it quite amazing that BMW have not taken a positive lead on the matter, particularly when you look at why most people buy a Beemer (Brand, perceived quality, engineering, reliability etc.)

If more of us stood up against this kind of thing then they would soon factor in the cost in lost sales and put the thing right.

Sorry to see you've decided not to get a BMW.

Might I remind you though, before you get too bad an impression of BMW corporate decision making, of the Honda Camchain and regulator issues, the Suzuki sub-frame failures and all the other little issues that crop up.

What I'm saying is that in a production run of X units, there WILL BE Y units that are enough out of spec to fail after a shorter time than the rest (nothing lasts forever). There's even a branch of science/engineering that examines this, I did a course in it at Exeter Uni (run by the man who wrote the book) during my Engineering Degree. (hmm - looks like he's expanded a bit! http://www.mirce.com/index.php )

Unfortunately, it's the nature of the internet that the "problem" bikes are the ones you hear about - within the many thousands of BMWs that are sold, I'm really not surprised that one or two (or ten) have a failure. Those that don't fail just keep going and the owners don't tend to trumpet the fact.

In the scheme of things BMW look after their customers pretty well - the warranty scheme is the best motorcycle warranty scheme on the planet, although it does make the bikes more expensive to buy initially.

[irich]

Hi Riceburner

I have to disagree, in an amicable way of course.

Firstly, a Beemer costs a fair bit more than a Japanese bike, so I expect more. Otherwise I'd buy Japanese. I know about chocolate cams, cracked rear suspension mounts, failed rotary dampers etc. Bikes are rushed out, not properly tested, failures get reported, there are re-calls.

Secondly, the BMW failures that I have read about seem to be severe and specific to a couple of areas (drive shaft, clutch splines, gearbox output shaft) and would appear to run into the hundreds of cases (8 reported from one dealer alone in a matter of six months. How many dealers?).

That is not standard deviation or MLTF, it is more likely to be poor design, lack of fit or poor quality control IMHO. Unfortunately, BMW seem to have nothing to say about it. Cost them a sale anyway, whatever the causes.

If this was a Chinese bike costing £3K then I could understand it. Pay your money, take your choice. If you are paying £9000 for what purports to be a quality bike then this is not acceptable.

Only a proportion of failures actually get reported over the internet. Most that are fixed under warranty never get mentioned. Most riders do not subscribe.

BTW, in respect of Production Engineering... I'm a Chartered Engineer.

My first bike was a TS125 Suzuki at 15. My second a KH250 S1 Kawasaki, I have owned a few bikes in my time, from a Suzuki RGV 250, a Motormorini 350 Strada to an MuZ Scorpion 660. None ever had a gearbox or clutch failure (but the KH250 was complete crap)

Anyway, I've made my choice. Like I say, I have no allegiance or axe to grind, I had seen a Rockster up for sale and was just looking for advice. Best wishes with yours Riceburner.

[riceburner]

Fair dos.


FWIW I strongly believe that one of the reasons for the failures that BMW's seem to suffer is that the bikes aren't used regularly enough. I get the impression (and that's all it is - I have no solid evidence) that the bikes that fail are the ones that are left in a garage for months, then pulled out and ridden 2000miles with lots of luggage twice a year.

if that mileage was spread over 30 weeks of shorter rides, ie the bike is used more regularly then the issues wouldn't occur as frequently.

it's not an engineering principle, more an observed phenomena, that a bike that is used regularly seems to stay in better condition than one used infrequently. (even if maintenance tasks are carried out at comparable milages).

[Tripton]

I have had the seals go on the drive shaft of mine. It is very minor, you can ride it as long as you need to get where you need to go with the seals leaking, and the warranty fix job is incredibly painless.

I'll take my chances with shaft failure. So far I have broken many more chains than driveshafts.

To each his own. I choose the BMW.

Good luck finding a bike.

[Lion_Lady]

The thing with the internet is this... folks who have any sort of failure tend to post about it. Those who's bikes are running with no problems don't say anything online except to post pictures of great rides and trips and to offer condolences and advice to those few with failures.

Asking for people's opinions about the failure rate of any machine is certainly going to result in a skewed evaluation.

Folks who are pissed off, tell everyone they can think of, those who are happy rarely spout off about it.

P

[Brownw3]

irich;

I'm sorry to hear you're not getting a Rockster but, quite bluntly, you're overanalysing the decision a bit too much. Do a search on the Internet and you can research for days on which bike did this and that. 90% of it is nonsense and the other 10% is dubious because we don't know the owner's history.

I currently own a 2004 Rockster purchased brand new in 2006. The bike has 11,000 miles on it and runs better everyday, even after being dropped on a US Freeway at 70MPH. I've owned 4 BMW motorcycles (including this one) and have never been stranded by one. That says enough for me.

Your typical Beemer rider is a marketing man's worse double edged sword. Overly analytical, Overly critical yet fiercely loyal.

Bottom line is you either want a BMW motorcycle or you want a Honda (or other similar brand) Rather than have a long-winded discussion about the periodic failure of machines (inevitable in this world) you should make up your mind and go riding. Now, personally, I recommend the Beemer, or the Honda, or the Suzuki or the Yamaha...

The Beemer will last longer, the Japanese imports are less expensive. Take your pick.