BMW R1200R R1150R/T F800 K1200R R1100R/T R1250R RnineT Message Board

You all know that BMW cars and bikes require premium unleaded. Well now BMW has issued an alert to its dealers about quality concerns with many common brands of gasoline sold in the US.

Technical Service Bulletin SIB130206 notes that most US gasoline manufacturers have reduced the concentration of detergent additives by as much as 50% -- apparently in response to an EPA call for lower additive concentrations. As a result, BMW now sees "a significant increase in various driveability complaints due to excessive carbon deposits in the engines' combustion chambers, on the intake valves, and fuel injectors." Related performance problems include hesitation or stumble during acceleration, poor acceleration, reduced fuel efficiency, increased emissions, unstable idle, knocking, pinging, run-on and misfires.

As a result, BMW, in cooperation with GM, Honda, and Toyota, has developed a new specification called Top Tier Detergent Gasoline. Manufacturers that meet this new standard include Chevron, Texaco, ConocoPhillips, 76, and Shell. Additional information can be found at http://www.toptiergas.com.

If you don't have access to top tier gas, BMW recommends adding a fuel system cleaner every 3000 miles to provide optimum cleaning and deposit control. It has just introduced its own new additive for this purpose although I'm sure Techron would work just as well.

In another recent Technical Service Bulletin (SIB130106), BMW warns that new gasoline blends such as E85 which contain high concentrations of ethanol, are not suitable for use in any vehicle currently produced by BMW.

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i have noticed a change in gas, especially after Katrina. I drive a delivery car everyday at work, the change has been very noticable. smells like eggs (high sulphur content). crappy running, knocking.

i have had my car for many years. i never needed to add anything to the gas. i now am needing to run 92 octane to avoid knocking. On the rare occasion that i get my car on an interstate, i add a bit of MMO. then it runs fine on any gas, for a couple weeks.

i bought this stuff for my bike, now my car needs it also.

I read that Ducati do not recomend using any ethonal fuel and will not cover any damage that it causes..there should be more warnings at the fuel pumps.

DJ

I'd welcome any advice as to how to avoid using gasoline/ethanol blends here in the NE US. Every service station (BP, Gulf Shell, Hess) that I have access to has a sticker that says something like "Up to 10% Ethanol" may be used.
Are there brands that don't use it?

243

Just a guess that it's mostly the rubber parts (the o-rings and seals in the tank, throttle bodies and injectors) that would be most affected by ethanolated gasoline. I believe most of these are made of Viton, which isn't great in ethanol, but they probably could be replaced with Buna-N (neoprene) which is more tolerant of alcohols. I don't know if there are umbrella seals around the valves or what they are made of, but they wouldn't be exposed to much gasohol anyway unless the guides were severely worn.

BTW, we've been hearig about black gunk forming in tanks, pickup tubes, intakes and cylinders in boat engines resulting from MTBE-gasoline mixing with ethanol-gas as it is being phased in, especially in New England. We haven't seen it here in Florida yet, but probably will as they replace the ground-water polluting MTBE with ethanol. I recommend that if you know you have any MTBE gas in your tank and will be switching to ethanol-gas, drain your tank beforehand so you don't mix them!

challey wrote:I'd welcome any advice as to how to avoid using gasoline/ethanol blends here in the NE US. Every service station (BP, Gulf Shell, Hess) that I have access to has a sticker that says something like "Up to 10% Ethanol" may be used.
Are there brands that don't use it?

Due to the tax breaks associated with ethanol sales, it will be very hard to find unblended gas. Stations simply cannot afford to sell pure gas anymore.


geo

I guess it's time to bring out the naphtalene balls out again.....

It's not the tax breaks that are forcing a switch to ethanol ... Congress has mandated it! Ostensibly, it's to make us less dependent on OPEC ... but since that would account for only an infinitesimal proportion of the fuel used, the real reason is a sop to midwest farmers and the corn lobby.

I would normally dismiss such stuff as marketing hype but we have documented that my wife's Accord gets 2 or 3 mpg better with Shell than BP or Exxon gas. (We have cards for all three).

I don't see any signifigant difference on the bike between brands.

All I know is when I quit using Sunoco, ran a little Seafoam through the system, and switched to Shell V Power, my Rockster is much much happier. Man ya gotta be a chemical engineer these days for everything you gotta know about lubes, gas and liquor.

I got to thinking about it. Actually I could guess that there's probably less than 50 people (Petroleum Chemical Engineers) that know what the hell we're putting in our gastanks. I know years ago I had a chainsaw that literally fell apart after a winter using a fuel with ethanol in it. I didn't know it had it, but it did, and it ate up most of the plastics etc. in it. Ruined a perfectly good machine.
I suspect that the auto (and motorcycle) manufacturers will welcome this change to force folks to buy new machines, and get rid of last years models. They hate competing with their own products.
For the nonce I shall keep adding Sea Foam every six or so tanks and hope for the best.
I know my bike likes Chevron better than Shell which it likes better than 76.

OK, what the heck is Sea Foam? Who makes it? Anything like Techron?

Sea Foam is an additive that supposedly helps with a number of potential engine problems. A number of folks on this board have recommended it spcifically to help with carbon build-up, though it apparently helps with most potential fuel system deposits. Based on those recommendations, I've been using on occasion, though I haven't had my R long enough to verify the claims. Most NAPA stores carry it. Oh, it's kind of a green color, like ocean water, which I guess accounts for the name.

Had my R in the shop yesterday for its 12000 mle check up. While there I overheard another customer talking to the service manager/owner of the shop. The owner was talking about how BMW has "developed" an additive to be used every 3000 miles to help keep the engines clean because of all the crap in our gas. This additive is not out yet, but should be appearing soon. HMMMMMM Must be some truth to the tales off needing to use a seafoam or techron product if BMW is going to brand their own.