BMW R1200R R1150R/T F800 K1200R R1100R/T R1250R RnineT Message Board

Is it my imagination or is it REALLY easy to lock up the rear wheel on the non ABS model?

Yes...it's real easy...stay off it..or be very careful.

DJ

There's a rear brake?

Im with DJ. I only use mine for moral suppport when making a turn. I just set my foot on it and pretend to push on it. Seems safer not to use it to me. And to think I used to be afraid of the front brake.
Tommy

453

What back brake?

sloopy_farklehump wrote:Is it my imagination or is it REALLY easy to lock up the rear wheel on the non ABS model?

Yes it is. I did it 3 years ago, must have had my R a month.

btw, The bike went straight as an arrow and I was able to steer left to avoid stopped a car when I locked it up.

That was the day I realized I no longer owned a Honda.

I just did it this morning... first time it happen freak me out... now I'm used to it... I only had R for about 3 month... lots of my old experience on how to ride a bike doesn't apply on R...

Well, I have news for the non-ABS crowd. I was able to lock my rear wheel using the rear brake only for a nicely controlled right turn on a slippery wet section leading into a gas station.

Didn't know that was possible on my ABS bike-but now I know!

It was a bit of fun, actually....

sloopy_farklehump wrote:Is it my imagination or is it REALLY easy to lock up the rear wheel on the non ABS model?

Haha I asked the same question on this board on the old site about 5 years ago when I first bought my 2002. The funny thing is that most people didn't seem to think so and told me to eat more pies to gain weight.

Yes I wholeheartedly agree with you that it is extremely easy to lock up the rear brakes on our Roadster. Actually I should say was....after 5 years, I have gotten pretty good at taking the rear brake to within a smidgen of lockup.

As for the theory of not using the rear brake, I don't completely agree with it 100% but there is a good deal of validity in that statement. Majority of the crash on and off the track are caused by rear brake lockup. However the truth remains that the bike will always stop quicker with the proper use of the front and rear brakes. Proper being the key word.

Practice practice practice!
Master your front brakes. And master your rear brakes. Use them the way you feel necessary. Obvioulsy if you are going downhill and must slam on your brakes, the rear is basically useless. If you are on a slippery condition, you are going to wish you had practiced more rear brake control.
Besides practicing on my roadbikes, I have learned a lot about brake control from riding a dirtbike. The other believe it or not, is downhill mountain biking. In downhill mountain biking, you live and die with precise brake control. There are no engine braking obviously. You are constantly at the maximum braking within a hair of impending lockup.

I will be doing my rear pads soon. I will be replacing my hoses with a Spiegler SS hoses to improve the feel.

Used it only yesterday to inform an errant pedestrian that she was straying from the path of safety and security.


There's something about the sound of a skidding tyre that seems to get into peds' brains.


Have also used it to slide the bike into a parking line up ...... doing it in front of my dealer in his car park probably wasn't the best idea though....

Riceburner you're a hooligan

I did it on the second ride on mine - nearly dropped my new bike

I'm used to it now,but too much of a coward for power slides

Oilhead wrote:<snip>...However the truth remains that the bike will always stop quicker with the proper use of the front and rear brakes.

When you can lift the rear wheel using only the front brake, what does rear braking add? It should be relabeled as a "hillholder" as that is its best function. Concentration spent trying to modulate the rear brake without lock-up during an emergency would be better spent on other cognitive activities more important at the moment. The problem with relying on rear brake use in normal situations is that you will fall back on that in an emergency and stomp hell out of it (then fall down and tell everyone you "had to lay 'er down"). ABS exists (and makes sense) for this reason, and if BMW's wasn't technically absurd I'd have it. They should copy Yamaha or Honda.

I will be doing my rear pads soon. I will be replacing my hoses with a Spiegler SS hoses to improve the feel.

My R came with SS lines, didn't yours? - Lee

beemerphile wrote: When you can lift the rear wheel using only the front brake, what does rear braking add? It should be relabeled as a "hillholder" as that is its best function. Concentration spent trying to modulate the rear brake without lock-up during an emergency would be better spent on other cognitive activities more important at the moment. The problem with relying on rear brake use in normal situations is that you will fall back on that in an emergency and stomp hell out of it (then fall down and tell everyone you "had to lay 'er down"). ABS exists (and makes sense) for this reason, and if BMW's wasn't technically absurd I'd have it. They should copy Yamaha or Honda.

I said that the proper use of front/rear brakes will stop the bike quicker than just the front. I also advocated that one should master the front brake and master the rear brake. And finally, I said use them the way you feel necessary. Some situations call for only the front, some only the rear, and some a blend of both. With practice, one can modulate the brakes just within a hair of lockup.

If you are advocating that one should completely ignore the rear brakes, that is a terrible terrible advice. If one does not know how to use their rear brakes, you will be in a whole load of sh!t if you encounter any kind of a slick surface. One should be totally familiar with the full potential of both brakes and use it accordingly to the situation.

As for your story about stomping the rear and laying it down, is this something from your own personal experience? Once again, it goes back to my original statement of "proper use of the front/rear brakes" & "practice practice practice".

I think all street riders should ride in the dirt, it is amazing how much you can learn riding in mud, sand, & gravel. The learning experience is priceless and may save your hide one day.

beemerphile wrote: My R came with SS lines, didn't yours? - Lee

2002 R1150R(& I believe the 2003 also) sold in the US did not have SS lines as it was not approved by DOT at the time.

Oilhead wrote:If you are advocating that one should completely ignore the rear brakes, that is a terrible terrible advice. If one does not know how to use their rear brakes, you will be in a whole load of sh!t if you encounter any kind of a slick surface. One should be totally familiar with the full potential of both brakes and use it accordingly to the situation.

I don't know if you have read Keith Code's books, but they changed my views considerably regarding rear brake use. I tend towards hyperbole and shouldn't have been so absolute. I also use rear brake on slippery surfaces because maximum braking is not available. However, I have trained myself out of rear brake use for most other situations in order to train out the instinct to use it in an emergency.

As for your story about stomping the rear and laying it down, is this something from your own personal experience?

Yes. from about 40 years ago when I was essentially ignorant in the sport.

Once again, it goes back to my original statement of "proper use of the front/rear brakes" & "practice practice practice".

No argument with your statement, but I expect that my definition of "proper use" of the rear brake is significantly more limited than yours.

I think all street riders should ride in the dirt, it is amazing how much you can learn riding in mud, sand, & gravel. The learning experience is priceless and may save your hide one day.

As a 1970's motocrosser, we're going to agree on that as well.

beemerphile wrote: I don't know if you have read Keith Code's books, but they changed my views considerably regarding rear brake use. I tend towards hyperbole and shouldn't have been so absolute. I also use rear brake on slippery surfaces because maximum braking is not available. However, I have trained myself out of rear brake use for most other situations in order to train out the instinct to use it in an emergency.

Are you talking about Twist of the Wrist series? If so yeah I have those books. From what I remember, Code says not to use the rear brakes on the track correct?

beemerphile wrote:Yes. from about 40 years ago when I was essentially ignorant in the sport.

I certainly respect a man who is honest.

beemerphile wrote: As a 1970's motocrosser, we're going to agree on that as well.

So ironically, we basically agree on just about everything!

You need a K12R young man....

they removed the rear brake...

well, it feels like it!


Bry

Boys boys......can't we all just get along? LOL

single650 wrote:Riceburner you're a hooligan

I did it on the second ride on mine - nearly dropped my new bike

I'm used to it now,but too much of a coward for power slides

moi????

Oilhead wrote:Are you talking about Twist of the Wrist series? If so yeah I have those books. From what I remember, Code says not to use the rear brakes on the track correct?

Yes, Twist of the Wrist 1 & 2. He talks about your $10 worth of concentration and how you can only spend it once. The $2 or so of concentration that you spend trying to modulate an ineffective rear brake is better spent plotting an exit or even a dismount strategy. The rear brake is minimally effective in hard braking on good traction surfaces because the weight transfer is so heavy to the front end. Maybe you are not to the point of a stoppie (my hyperbole strikes again), but there is not enough weight left on the rear to make it help much in scrubbing off speed. It is easy enough to skid the back tire on a good day (which is what started this thread!), but under maximum braking on good pavement with a Buick in your face, it is almost guaranteed. Because it doesn't help much and it occupies a lot of concentration, it is a bad expenditure of the mental resources in an emergency. The way to assure that what you do in an emergency is technically correct rather than an inappropriate survival response, is to make the technique your standard practice. Look, this guy trained Wayne Rainey. As far as whether track tactics are directly transferrable to the street, I think they largely are. If you are racing at 10/10ths pace and somebody blows it in front of you, the same tense time-bound emergency exists as when a dumb cager makes an unannounced bid for your space. In such a case roadracing skills can save you. And in such a case, I don't think Code would be messing with the rear brake.

If you lose traction or get airborne, dirt bike skills can save you. Just as you recommend dirt training for everyone, I (in addition, not instead) recommend some track time with a teacher. I haven't had any personal time with Code, but I have read and applied his techniques and after extensive practice, I firmly believe they are correct.

So ironically, we basically agree on just about everything!

I think we mostly do. It is just in the definition of "proper". I use the rear brake under specific limited conditions, but I have otherwise trained myself off of it for normal and emergency braking so that I do not instinctively apply it at a time when it would not serve me well. I do not assume that I have $20 worth of concentration available when I only have $10. Hell, at my age I probably only have about $5.25 left. If I have to pick something to ignore in an emergency situation in order to process the remaining data correctly, the rear brake seems to me like a good thing to forget about.

I try and use my rear brakes often, to increase the lifespan of the front.