BMW R1200R R1150R/T F800 K1200R R1100R/T R1250R RnineT Message Board

I can't believe what just happened a few hours ago. I was out riding on country roads here in Italy (beautiful day), when all of a sudden this truck just pulls out from nowhere from a side street right after a curve. I must of been doing 110 KM/H when I just saw him in front of me. I pulled on my brakes as hard as I can......my baby stopped on a dime! Very controllable. There was even dirt and sand on the road. I am now a true believer in ABS on bikes. I can't believe how well those brakes worked! ABS should be on all bikes!!!

First, glad to hear that you are fine. I have ABS on my R1150R as well. I have fortunate enough that I have not had a situation like yours. I really appreciate your praise on the ABS system but do not discount the most important aspect; the driver. You recognized the situation, stayed calm and did what you were suppose to do. You safely put the bike in a situation where the ABS would perform optimally. Once again, glad to hear that you are fine

I have heard many say, save the money on ABS, let me tell you, after having also been saved by ABS I will never own anything without it. A year ago I came around a turn only to find 5 deer strung across the road.

I grabbed all the brakes I could get to avoid them. If I had not had ABS I would have washed out or highsided.

I of course straightened the bike up first before hammering the brakes but I can tell you, a non ABS bike would have been VERY scary.

Arr yes...BMW...tis good!.....glad you're ok....bloody trucks..

Check out BMW's new add.....I liked it.....(sorry I don't mean to hi-jack)

DJ

im definately a huge fan of abs for those very reasons

I'm glad you're allright. And, I agree! ABS truly can be a life-saver. The ED80 is the first bike I've ever owned, and I wonder if I have bad braking habits because of the ABS. Oh well. I don't think I'll know anytime soon. It only has 18,000 miles on it. Long live the boxer engine!

Funny ad DJ... curious where it was published...

Ed K...I agree...very odd...I don't know the story with them....here's another..

DJ

If you want to be stuck escorting the May day parade keep the HD but if you want to catch crooks get on a BMW.

This thread has the potential to be long, if we start another ABS debate!

I also have ABS and feel it was worth the insurance, although I have never had the occasion for it to actually come on, except during braking practice.

But you understand, there are those out there that would ridicule you for your inferior skills, forcing you to rely on a complicated technological answer when you should be racing and practicing so you are as good as them!

I, for one, have never advocated ABS as a substitution for practice and skill. I would like to think I can handle panic stops on my own. My main concern was braking in slick conditions (oil, sand rain) and figured most people's skills could use some assistance in those conditions.

I also understand the reluctance of some to put up with the expense and complications of ABS system. To be honest, if I was riding 25K a year in some remote locations, I might opt out of having it, just to add a measure of reliability to the bike. But I am quite satisfied with the ABS on my R, (except for the servo noise! )

Thanks guys! I do agree the servo noise is a bit anoying, but again it is well worth it! Peace of mind. Well, it's a beautiful day out today, going out riding again......watching out for those bloody trucks! Happy riding to you all!!!!!!!!!!

wncbmw wrote:This thread has the potential to be long, if we start another ABS debate!

I also have ABS and feel it was worth the insurance, although I have never had the occasion for it to actually come on, except during braking practice.

But you understand, there are those out there that would ridicule you for your inferior skills, forcing you to rely on a complicated technological answer when you should be racing and practicing so you are as good as them!

I, for one, have never advocated ABS as a substitution for practice and skill. I would like to think I can handle panic stops on my own. My main concern was braking in slick conditions (oil, sand rain) and figured most people's skills could use some assistance in those conditions.

I also understand the reluctance of some to put up with the expense and complications of ABS system. To be honest, if I was riding 25K a year in some remote locations, I might opt out of having it, just to add a measure of reliability to the bike. But I am quite satisfied with the ABS on my R, (except for the servo noise! )

Yes, that's exactly how I feel.

Now where is Dallara for the brief, concise, opposing point of view?

where are all the ABS bashers at? this is kinda spooky, like something is out of balance in the universe.

?Where are all the ABS Bashers?" There recovering from accidents. (kidding of course, thats not very nice)

I find the only problem with my breaks is that the bike can stop more quickly than the heavy lump sat aboard

iowabeakster wrote:where are all the ABS bashers at? this is kinda spooky, like something is out of balance in the universe.

I wonder if the ABS bashers are all the same guys that disappeared during the feuding a few months ago. Or they're here but have given up trying to convince the ABS fans that they're wrong, and we ABS fans let them have their better feel, less cost, and less noise.

Look there, it's Beemer peace in our time.

The ABS system on the 50r will bring the bike to a stop quicker than even the best rider riding a non abs machine....assuming the bike is stood up. It's amazing, but the front wheel is grabby going slow and makes it easy to drop the bike......use the rear when your going slow....

I have never been involved in an ABS discussion on this site but I have been involved in several discussions at the BMW Sport Touring site. There seems to be some mis-information in a couple of the posts.

*Quote: "The ABS system on the 50r will bring the bike to a stop quicker than even the best rider riding a non abs machine....assuming the bike is stood up".

This is not true. There have been many independent tests on both and ABS equipped cars or motorcycles do not stop any faster than a non-ABS vehicle. In fact, in a panic stop on a dry surface, the ABS equipped vehicle will take longer to stop because of the automatic pulsing of the ABS system. What ABS WILL do is keep you from falling in a panic stop on a slippery surface (wet / sand, etc.)

My objection to the ABS3 equipped BMW's linked, servo system is the grabby nature at slow speeds that can cause the most experienced rider to lose control of the bike. I damned near dropped my former 2002, R1150RT on more than one occasion when pulling into a gas station and other slow speed maneuver's. There are hundreds of other experienced riders who have complained about this same problem with this system. I also own a 2000 R1200C that is equipped with the ABS2 system that is NOT linked and does not have servo-assist. I have no problem with this ABS system and would buy another if it was still offered on BMW's.
My other objection to ABS3 is the cost of replacement parts. If your servo's go bad or the ABS pump goes bad, there is no repair: only replacement. Replacement cost of the servo system or the ABS pump is around $2000 each (including labor). I have no desire to pay an additional $2k for an ABS3 equipped bike and then incur an additional $2-$4K in repair costs to the braking system just to have ABS.
Another problem for me is the high cost of brake maintenance on the ABS3 system. $250-$300 every year to bleed the brakes on this complex system is ridiculous. I can bleed the brakes in my garage on my bike with the ABS2 system or my non-ABS BMW in around 20 minutes for the total cost of the brake fluid.

Some of you may believe that ABS3 is worth the extra $$$$ that you will spend. I don't. That's why I sold my RT and bought a non-ABS, R1150R. Having a choice is a great thing. Ain't America great?

Jax wrote:

Quote: "The ABS system on the 50r will bring the bike to a stop quicker than even the best rider riding a non abs machine....assuming the bike is stood up".

This is not true. There have been many independent tests on both and ABS equipped cars or motorcycles do not stop any faster than a non-ABS vehicle. In fact, in a panic stop on a dry surface, the ABS equipped vehicle will take longer to stop because of the automatic pulsing of the ABS system. What ABS WILL do is keep you from falling in a panic stop on a slippery surface (wet / sand, etc.)

Jax. Your objections are valid. It is an overly complex system that is expensive to maintain. Also, the servos are noisy. In addition, the residual braking power (servo not active) is weak, but usable.

However, I think that your statements are somewhat misleading. The original poster clearly stated that there was dirt and sand on the road. This was not a panic stop on a clean dry surface. This was not a car. Therefore, without seeing these tests you are speaking of, I am not sure they are relevant to the specific incident. Many of us (including me) who chose ABS did so for its stopping abilities on NON-dry surfaces. In other words, we want to be able to stop quickly in difficult situations.

In 2002, I saw an ABS demo at BMW USA headquarters in Montvale NJ. I believe it was a K bike. On a surface that was wet with some straw on it, the same rider on the same type of bike was clearly able to stop much better with ABS than without. He was an expert rider.

I have no doubt that an expert rider can stop a non-ABS bike just as quick as, or even quicker than, an ABS bike on a clean, dry surface. But that is not why I bought ABS. I bought it for situations when the road is wet, sandy, gravelly, etc. I bought it for situations when perhaps my concentration is affected because I am tired. I bought it for situations when perhaps I might panic because, well, I am human. I bought it also because I am not an expert.

ABS is no substitute for learning proper braking techniques. However, it can certainly enhance the stopping power of someone who has learned basic braking techniques but who encounters an emergency situation. I do practice panic stops, and an R can stop quick enough to make you a eunuch I am still glad I have my ABS.

At the risk of being flamed, we must get our terms correct.

I don't think anyone would argue the benefits of ABS under certian coditions. Likewise, in good conditions it is unlikely to get activated.

What is deifinetly arguable is the benefit of the very complicated/expensive power assistance that BMW now make us have if we want ABS.

They are not the same thing - you do not need power assistance to get ABS, and I assume if you ever needed it, you could have power assistance without ABS - oh I think that's what the GSs have if they go off-road.

I speak from experience when my previous RT and my current R failed to activate properly, and I arrived at the first junction to find only residual braking. Now when you are used to that GRAB, 10% is nothing. It is scary.

I still ahve these brakes becuase I want ABS, but I don't like it.

At least BMW have extended the srevice inteval for fluid change to 4 years in the centre circuits which keeps down the cost.