BMW R1200R R1150R/T F800 K1200R R1100R/T R1250R RnineT Message Board

2002 r
32,500 miles

For past few weeks, getting into first gear is different. As I am approaching a stop, I grab the clutch and down shift. Everything goes fine until I try to downshift into first gear. Instead of clunking right into first gear like it used to, when I press down the shifter I feel like gear teeth clicking under my foot. I then press down a bit harder, and it will engage. This is different .

Bike drives great otherwise, no other trouble shifting. Occasionally pops out of 1st or 2nd gear into neutral, but that is very rare.


Any thoughts?

Thanks,
Steven

Doesn't sound good.....how long since you've bled the clutch? How many miles on the bike?

Hoping CycleRob joins in.........he'll have the right answer right off!

Uh oh. I have had the bike since 13,700 miles (now 32,500). I have done all the fluids except the clutch fluid. Not sure why I have put that off.
When you say "doesn't sound good" what are you thinking?

It sounds like the clutch is not fully engaging. Or disengaging I suppose. Slightly dragging could be a way to put it. Hopefully a good flushing will help. The slave cylinder may be the issue. Doesn't sound like anything beyond that. I'll pm Rob and hopefully get him here.

Check your shift linkage, they do ware. Pushing harder sounds like linkage.
May need to be adjusted longer.

Make sure tight at the trans shaft, could be loose.

Open the clutch master reservoir and show us the photo... I need to do same!

And there is info here about shift linkage maintenance and parts replacement, as kirby suggests.

search.php?keywords=Shift+linkage&terms ... mit=Search

sstein wrote:When you say "doesn't sound good" what are you thinking?

OK, time to overdo it again. If it is not because the shift linkage pivots are dry, dirty and binding, then it can indicate a bent shift fork inside the transmission. It could also be shifting softly and too slowly or shifting while stopped about 3 seconds after the clutch lever was pulled all the way in and the clutch plate and all gears on the transmission input shaft have stopped rotating. After the bike stops, when the male engagement dogs on any down-shifted gear do not align with the adjacent gear's much wider female slot, it will NOT go into gear until the bike rolls/moves or (easier) the clutch is released and withdrawn to spin up the tranny parts to idle RPMs again AND a shift is made in less that 1.5 seconds, before the clutch plate and input shaft coast to a stop again. This phenomenon only happens on dry clutch vehicles without synchromesh transmissions, in EVERY std trans car/Truck today. My 1998 Nissan manual 5 speed even has synchronizers on reverse gear, so it will always go smoothly into gear without crunching gear sensations while stopped and even if the truck is moving forward.

Most likely, and hopefully, it is shift linkage pivots that are dry, dirty and binding. Taking the visible shift linkage all apart for cleaning and re-greasing is usually rare for the majority of riders, unless they follow the service schedule. So, even though it is NOT out-of-sight, it is out-of-mind -until- a problem occurs. Riders that ride in the rain often will need a strict adherence to servicing the external shift linkage.

It took a while, but I found a few really good motorcycle transmission YouTube videos for you to watch-and-learn.
This one is the best explained and demonstrated visual, even though some made-up part names are used: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7EMIdGgsQ68
The next one shows an animation, good for showing modern internal shift linkage that prevents speed shifting over shift -and- transmission power train paths. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E2CybLSrN5Q
This last one from the "pros" at Motorcyclist Magazine is somewhat informative, has too much time wasting drama and has other facts left out. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xtghypx8mII
There were a few others that were a complete waste of time with poor demos and failed explanations.

BTW, there were 3 of the 13 bikes I have owned that needed bent shift forks, and a few expensive gears replaced, fortunately, always by me. A 1972(?) SL-125 Honda dirtbike, after its' 20 something rider crashed in the dirt onto the shift lever. A first year V-4 Honda VF750S (Sabre) that started popping out of 2nd gear after aggressive speed shifting and years of shifting without the clutch. A VX800 Suzuki, after years of shifting millions of gear changes without the clutch had 3 gears and 1 shift fork replaced -including- a cylinder over-bore after noting the factory Teflon piston coating was partially worn away. I hope those confessions do not Hi-Jack this thread about "shifting without the clutch." It did not seem to do any damage to the massive gears/dogs of my long gone R1150R which always felt that it shifted crisply without any of that telltale crunchy pre-engagement. I still do it about 40% of the time (at low RPMs) on the F800ST. About 60% of the time, with a rider or high RPMs, the bike's smooth cable actuated wet multi-plate clutch is used.

Great videos. Something so beautiful about the simplicity of the engineering. I guess that rattling when I try to shift into first gear is the dogs not totally engaging in their adjacent sprockets. I will start with cleaning and regreasing the intermediate lever. If not better I'll let you know. Hopefully not a bent fork.

Thanks for the direction and the links to the videos. I had no idea how the gearbox functions.

Yes, certainly a worthwhile and satisfying bit of maintenance, which allows a degree of tailoring for your foot size.

I explained that "spinning gears" thing to the coworker who bought new Fz8. he rode it and carefully put in first when he shut it off. I asked him why, he said he didnt like the clunk when he shifts into first to take off.

I said just pull the clutch and wait a sec LOL

So I removed the shift linkage and cleaned and greased the sockets. However once I removed the linkage, I found the shifting arm to be all wiggly. In fact with a little jiggling it came right out! Clearly the filibuster head screw was loose, so the shifting arm was barely attached to the selector shaft. I slid the shifting arm back on snug and snugged it up. Then reattached the linkage. Rides GREAT now!
Scary to think it could have come loose on the highway - I would have lost all shifting ability.

Thanks for the help. Once again, sound advice from the r1150r forum.

Steven

sstein wrote:So I removed the shift linkage and cleaned and greased the sockets. However once I removed the linkage, I found the shifting arm to be all wiggly. In fact with a little jiggling it came right out! Clearly the filibuster head screw was loose, so the shifting arm was barely attached to the selector shaft. I slid the shifting arm back on snug and snugged it up. Then reattached the linkage. Rides GREAT now!
Scary to think it could have come loose on the highway - I would have lost all shifting ability.

Thanks for the help. Once again, sound advice from the r1150r forum.

Steven

that happened to me on a dual sport yamaha bike I borrowed from my wifes cousin! stuck in 2nd! looked all over in the ditch. never found it, returned him a broken bike. felt SO bad.... was LOOOONG ride home that day.