BMW R1200R R1150R/T F800 K1200R R1100R/T R1250R RnineT Message Board

For those who wants a little extra oomph, DynoJet had released the PCIII for the R1150R/RT bikes.

http://www.powercommander.com/918-611.shtml

I'm going to put one on my Rockster.

Are you going to pop for the oxygen sensor too? I've been thinking about this one for quite a while. Aided, of course, by the fact that the product never seemed to materialize. I'm not really interested in more ooomph (heh, heh, right), but I would really like to reduce the low rpm surging that drives me and my daughter nuts (Please - no comments on the existence or non-existence of surging. Been there, done that).

Might have to think about the Power Comander myself. I found the surging didn't go away at 10k miles like some have said.
I've learned to dislike it.

I haven't thought much about the oxygen sensor. Where does it go?

My understanding was that the new oxygen sensor is a "wide band" device that give better instantaneous readings on the exhaust gas mixture. It replaces the O2 sensor already stuck in the catalytic converter. Pricey item, though should make a difference in running.

I've got better things to do with my money. My 03 R runs so good bone stock why waste the money?

biggums wrote:I've got better things to do with my money. My 03 R runs so good bone stock why waste the money?

Are you sure that your bike runs that well? Have you put it on a dyno and look at the power curve and/or the air/fuel ratio?

But whatever floats your boat. I don't have anything else better to do with my money, so I'll spend it on my favorite toy.

Biggums,

Glad to hear it. Couldn't be happier for you. But the fact still remains that mine stutters at a certain rpm and, short of selling out and buying a Honda, I'd like to see it cured...

I guess I'm lucky but my bike has always run 100%. Never surged and has always run smooth and strong from day 1. Now I have 12000 miles and it runs better each ride. If it did have difficulties I would research the PC or whatever it took.

Brakecheck here, I've had the same experience as Biggums, 11500 miles on my 04 and it just keeps getting better and better. It does look like the final drive seal will need replacing at the 12K service though.

My bike runs well too, but that doesn't mean that it runs to its fullest potential. Unless you put your bike on the dyno and see how it actually performs instead of seat-of-the-pants, you can't really tell. Go to the Rockster forum and look at the dyno picture of my Rockster. The power band looks like crap. I ran it twice so the dyno doesn't lie.

Anyway, some people are happy with stock and some like to fiddle. I like to fiddle.

Regardless, it looks like DynoJet was premature in their announcement. The PCIII is not yet released for sales.

The PCIII is not yet released for sales.

Damn and blast. This is becoming the best vaporware product I've ever heard about. Release has been delayed for going on a year now. I guess I'll just sit back and contemplate whether to buy one or not for a while longer...

If I were to have kept my roadster, I would have bought this thing. My bike ran good and didn't surge, but it did have an off idle stumble, choke and stall at stop lights three of four times per week. It was little more than annoying and could be overcome by some light throttle chopping prior to clutch release, but I suppose it was a safety issue since the cars behind me weren't expecting my bike to die and leave me stopped in front of a whole line of traffic. Keep in mind that I commute every day in traffic, so my rding experience was different than many other's (there are about forty stop lights between my house and the hangar where my office is located).

My MT-01 runs great and has plenty of power, but I will buy a PC III for it just to increase the efficiency of the power delivery (not fuel efficiency).

Just about every large displacement bike these days is tuned from the factory to meet emmission and noise standards that are restrictive to say the least. Basically, they are tuned to run lean in certain parts of the rev range so that the emisions are cleaner and the sound is restricted. This is amplified for air cooled bikes since they can be noisy and/or "dirty" in a power tuned condition. Generally speaking, the ability to tune the fuel/air ratio throughout the rev range is good.

That said, the BMW EFI is a very simple system compared to some of the higher tech modern EFI systems in cars and sport bikes. The PC III may not be able to overcome the built in limitations of the simple computer.

This brings up another question. If a bike is fitted with a Y pipe sans O2 sensor, will the PC III have much affect? It sounds like the O2 sensor is an important part of the solution. The faster thinking O2 sensor would have to be part of the equation for the BMW.

Finally, this thing is no magic box that will provide a lot of extra horse power or torque. What it has the potential to do is smooth the power and torque curves and reduce or eliminate flat spots or dips in the graph. That is a good thing. The overall power delivery will most likely be the same or slightly higher, but the smoothness of the power delivery could be dramatically improved.

If a bike is fitted with a Y pipe sans O2 sensor, will the PC III have much affect? It sounds like the O2 sensor is an important part of the solution. The faster thinking O2 sensor would have to be part of the equation for the BMW.

If you compare what is known about the Motronic 2.4 system and the EFI on the '04 bikes there is a great deal of difference. The oft named Moronic is a very simple system with lousy sampling rate and an O2 sensor that cannot keep up with changes as fast as they happen. The Motoronic was probably designed to a price point that was moderate for the time that it was designed, but all that technology changes very quickly and becomes cheaper by the day. My bike is grand in cool weather when there seems to be more gas in the equation, due to the air temp sensor. Warmed up in warm weather is a pain in the patoot at commuting speeds if you try to keep a steady throttle/gear in traffic. I've learned to moderate both throttle and gear according to Deano's advice. It works, but is not ideal.

I believe that at least one manufacturer of a Y pipe includes a bung for an O2 sensor so you could probably have altered both the fuel-air mix and the exhaust for more oooomph with the PCIII, but seems it is moot ---- again. I might be a little leery of a company that seems to have difficulty bringing the product to market. Things being what they are, I'll probably move on to another bike before this is resolved by adding on a PCIII. Ah, well, that's what gives the bike character, 'eh?

My shop's experience with DynoJet Power Commanders has been disappointing. Unless the bike has an annoying, erratic running problem, like the early TL-1000S Suzuki, we do not and will not recommend them. There have been many reliability problems where the bike's stock "FI" indicator light comes on after a few months riding. We reset the GSXR-1000 or 750 light but it comes on again "When it gets real hot" -or- "When it was idling". There's always no trouble code set even though the bike runs erratic. We remove the PC-III and go back to stock - - - the problem goes away. The biggest problem with PC-III's is that when I wacked the throttle on at 4,000 rpm for a DynoRun, several bikes just shut off for a second, then violently came back on. Other times a customer comes in with an array of specific RPM fuel and ignition settings from the NET tailored for his exhaust system with a stock engine. There's always huge claims - - - as much as 10HP is promised. When the Dyno drum spins, the B.S. stops there. Less than 2 out of 10 bikes show an improvement over 1 or 2 HP and they more often than not make the same or LESS power. All that for just over $300.

I'm a tinkerer too and would just LOVE to be able to mess with fuel and ignition settings - - - but the DynoJet PC-III has performance and reliability issues. Have DynoRuns made before and after to confirm or deny the claims.

The R1150R PC-III still isn't ready yet, my guess, is because they most likely cannot solve the flame-out problem or there's no performance or driveability improvement.

Thanks for your input CycleRob.

DJ

arkline wrote:My understanding was that the new oxygen sensor is a "wide band" device that give better instantaneous readings on the exhaust gas mixture. It replaces the O2 sensor already stuck in the catalytic converter. Pricey item, though should make a difference in running.

Our bikes come with a narrow-band (NB) O2 sensor. If the exhaust mixture is sub-stoichiometric (rich) it will output about 0.8 volts. If the exhaust is lean it will output about 0.4 volts. It switches between the two values very quickly in between. Under cruise conditions (warmed up, no significant acceleration or deceleration), our ecu constantly adjusts the fuel up and down a few times a second to keep the O2 sensor switching back and forth, meaning that the mixture is, on average, stoichiometric.

A wide-band (WB) sensor responds nearly linearly with your-air-fuel ratio over a fairly wide range, about 10 to 20. An ecu designed to use that device can pretty much give you any AFR you want/need under most conditions. The benefit is that rarely is stoichiometric AFR best.

HTH
Mark

Excellent posts by new2BMW, CYCLEROB and mbohn......I have been preaching that tune for almost 2 years now. I just posted the same on the rockster side in response to fnfalman's thought about being the guinea pig......

I want to add that the new breed of FI systems from Japan are significantly more sophisticated than the prior units and light years ahead of the Motronic. The engineering that goes on these new bikes has the HP and the performance at the max of the envelope, to the point that there is little to be had with external mods, other than sound and looks.

On another note, for the benefit of those not into the intimate details of their BMW bikes, the ECU's on the new BMW offerings (Boxers and K bikes) are manufactured by a diferent vendor and are significantly more powerful in the computation department that the Motronic units.

In closing, don't waste your money on the PCIII......buys us a round of suds.....vot only will it be cheaper and we get to tell some fish stories...

Well, I'm pleasantly surprised. The performance tuning shop called me and said that they got the PC III in. I got the appointment set up for installation and tuning/dynoing for 8 OCT 05. I'll keep you guys updated.

If it works, great. If not, oh well, now we'll know for sure.

Thanks fnfalman...we're hoping for second gear power wheelies...

DJ