BMW R1200R R1150R/T F800 K1200R R1100R/T R1250R RnineT Message Board

Just wanted to sing the praises of the Dobeck programmer once again. What an incredible upgrade for the R1150r, no surging, smooth throttle transitions, perfect programming when eliminating catalytic converter, more power everywhere, just simply amazing. When I get a chance I will strap Gertrude to the dyno and see how she spins the drum with 50k miles under her belt. Best modification for the bike....Dobeck.

I used the dobeck style on my Raptor 700. I thought it worked great. It made EFI feel more carburetor-like, just pot adjustments, instead of jet and needle changes.

The Dobeck units are clever. By tapping one wire in the motorcycle (one of the fuel injector wires), they allow fuel to be added in three broad areas. What they do is measure the length of the fueling pulse sent by the Motronic to the injector. With it you can choose a fuel to be added for short pulses (green adjustment), medium pulses (yellow), and long pulses (red adjustment). You can also choose where the green, yellow and red kick in (three more adjustments). Lastly, you can choose at what RPM the Dobeck stops using the O2 sensor, but in all cases it stops using it just above idle. So there are seven knobs (now up and down arrows) that you can twiddle. There isn't a display, you make the adjustments by feel, and they tend to interact with each other.

The number of adjustments is one of the drawbacks though. Sometimes getting them to feel "right" can take quite a while. (See this thread on dialing in a Husky: http://www.cafehusky.com/threads/ejk.43851/. However, that said, it will work, often at the expense of extra fuel.

The other drawback is that one of the Motronic's best attributes, Mixture Adaptation (the ability to learn how to keep fueling right by using the O2 sensor) is disabled. Although there is an O2 connector on the newer Dobeck models, it is for the purpose of selectively disabling the O2 sensor above idle. So if the fuel you're running is gasoline and you fuel with E10, you should readjust. Also, no O2 sensor means the Motronic "spreads" the fueling--using more sometimes and less others in an attempt to keep the catalytic converter "limping" along.

So the Dobeck was good for its time. Lambda-shifting with the Innovate LC-2 or Nightrider AF-XIED is a newer, more integrated approach. It adds fuel, by keeping the Motronic in the game and using the Motronic's brain to make the additions predictably, everywhere. Only one adjustment needed. If you search, there are threads which explain it in detail.
RB

The number of adjustments is one of the drawbacks though. Sometimes getting them to feel "right" can take quite a while.

100% true Roger. It can be "fiddly" BUT. to a guy used to being "fiddly" with carb jets,needles and springs....replacing components with circuits. it seemed elementary...and almost pleasurable. and cheaper.

The power commander was quicker, more accurate and way easier. but more expensive and difficult to do in the field, sans laptop.

I still say dobeck is "FINE" but if exact settings and/or max power is what you are going for, you'll want more programmable technology.

Fuel economy has suffered, used to get 46mpg prior to the Dobeck, now I am getting 45mpg. I have not experienced any tuning difficulty, but have never fine tuned it on a dyno, I will report back when I have a chance to do so, may be a bit though. I would love to see pulls with other tuning options, I am always willing to upgrade if possible.

monstrous wrote:Fuel economy has suffered, used to get 46mpg prior to the Dobeck, now I am getting 45mpg. I have not experienced any tuning difficulty, but have never fine tuned it on a dyno, I will report back when I have a chance to do so, may be a bit though. I would love to see pulls with other tuning options, I am always willing to upgrade if possible.

45mpg is "suffering"

What the hell is wrong with my bike, then?! I struggle to get 40mpg HIGHWAY and I all but baby it.

Last tank was 46.93mpg.High test fuel with Startron additive, GT4 tires at 45lbs, Mobil1 4t in motor, 75-90 gl5 in trans and rear, no catalyst, x pipe, LeVinci exhaust no baffle, and Dobeck at recommended settings. My commute is 48 miles each way, half twisty mountain road, half freeway and I ride faster than most people I ride with.

monstrous wrote:Last tank was 46.93mpg.High test fuel with Startron additive, GT4 tires at 45lbs, Mobil1 4t in motor, 75-90 gl5 in trans and rear, no catalyst, x pipe, LeVinci exhaust no baffle, and Dobeck at recommended settings. My commute is 48 miles each way, half twisty mountain road, half freeway and I ride faster than most people I ride with.

son of a......

so youve opened it up and still it gets better mileage?

I forgot, stock intake with stock BMW high flow filter. Mileage really has not changed much regardless of many kinds of set ups. Mileage does suffer as my speed increases during pure highway riding, anything north of an indicated 78 mph really drops my mpg, I had a tank on my last trip running @90mph that returned 37 mpg. If I baby her on my normal commute I can see 49mpg....but what fun is that.

peels wrote:The number of adjustments is one of the drawbacks though. Sometimes getting them to feel "right" can take quite a while.

100% true Roger. It can be "fiddly" BUT. to a guy used to being "fiddly" with carb jets,needles and springs....replacing components with circuits. it seemed elementary...and almost pleasurable. and cheaper.

The power commander was quicker, more accurate and way easier. but more expensive and difficult to do in the field, sans laptop.

I still say dobeck is "FINE" but if exact settings and/or max power is what you are going for, you'll want more programmable technology.

We're on the same page, just a different perspective on the Dobeck. The earlier models only had three adjustments: short injection times, medium and long (e.g. for WOT), and the earlier ECUs didn't really mind having their O2 sensor disconnected. Now, when you disconnect the O2, it shifts into a "limp" mode which still tries to keep the catalytic converter happy--making some injection pulses richer than they need to be and some leaner. What this means is that the Dobeck needs to be made rich enough so that the "lean" pulses have enough fuel, using excess fuel.

Newer models also lead to the need to adjust crossover points. This seems to be easier on some bike models than on others, based on user reports. Perhaps where Dobeck gets them close to begin with it's simpler to tweak them.

Most bikes, even with intake and exhaust mods only need 4-8% more fuel, which the Motronic is happy to supply if you shift the O2 sensor with one of the newer devices like the LC-2 from Innovate Motor Sports (assembly, periodic calibration and programming required) or the AF-XIED from Nightrider (plug 'n play). With this approach you get precise richness added, with no 'limp' mode.

The Motronic unit may be great but after removing the catalyst and adding a free flowing silencer the bike was lean to the point of not running at all, so it was not able to adapt. With the catalyst removed and the stock muffler in place it ran fine, maybe the best setup for the bike as no additional "fiddling" would be required. I may have a different Dobeck unit than you described, it has very few adjustments, 4, not the seven you described. It is possible to complicate the process by considering the dizzying amount of adjustments if they are all employed one at a time, somewhere north of a million possible variations, but that is not necessary as setup is remarkable simple, and most importantly effective. When I get a chance I will dyno the bike using the recommended settings which I am currently running,after a few experimental twists which did not noticeably improve fueling, and then dial it in as perfectly as possible and report back. I am interested in all other options especially if they are as effective as this one is. As reported, no significant impact on economy has been observed.

I am only familiar with the 4 pot version. I found it pretty easy to use. The single cylinder Yamaha engine needed much more tweaking, and its a closed system. No adjustment. SO you're stuck adding a controller.

And monstrous. Your mpg, (as well as other reports) have convinced me something is still wrong with my bike.... 49mpg....please....

I'll be in the corner crying.

peels wrote:I am only familiar with the 4 pot version. I found it pretty easy to use. The single cylinder Yamaha engine needed much more tweaking, and its a closed system. No adjustment. SO you're stuck adding a controller.

And monstrous. Your mpg, (as well as other reports) have convinced me something is still wrong with my bike.... 49mpg....please....

I'll be in the corner crying.

The older versions were simpler. The EJK version now on sale has several different leds, and + and a - buttons that control 6 or so different variables.

If you can borrow a GS-911 and log a CSV file of all realtime values, from a moment before starting, until about 5 minutes of idling, I'll be able to tell if your problem is related to sensors or something else.

Roger 04 rt wrote:

peels wrote:I am only familiar with the 4 pot version. I found it pretty easy to use. The single cylinder Yamaha engine needed much more tweaking, and its a closed system. No adjustment. SO you're stuck adding a controller.

And monstrous. Your mpg, (as well as other reports) have convinced me something is still wrong with my bike.... 49mpg....please....

I'll be in the corner crying.

The older versions were simpler. The EJK version now on sale has several different leds, and + and a - buttons that control 6 or so different variables.

If you can borrow a GS-911 and log a CSV file of all realtime values, from a moment before starting, until about 5 minutes of idling, I'll be able to tell if your problem is related to sensors or something else.

That would be "swell" But..I don't have one on this bike It's bone stock.

There were no problems listed. The thread was started by monstrous SOLELY to sing the Dobeck's praises, and I followed suit, drawing only from previous experience on Yamaha engines. It has sorta come off the rails because I'm having a jealous fit over his MPG, which is not exactly relative to this thread. (totally my fault)

I appreciate the gesture, regardless. THANKS!

Just had a chance to put the old girl on the dyno, I am not willing to jump through the hoops required to post the sheet. 81.11 HP at 6500rpm and 71.07 Max torque at 5600 rpm. The HP goes above 75 at 5500 and drops below at rev limit, torque above 65 ft at 3500 and drops below at 6550 rpm. A little stronger than when new! This is at 61459 miles.

monstrous wrote:Just had a chance to put the old girl on the dyno, I am not willing to jump through the hoops required to post the sheet. 81.11 HP at 6500rpm and 71.07 Max torque at 5600 rpm. The HP goes above 75 at 5500 and drops below at rev limit, torque above 65 ft at 3500 and drops below at 6550 rpm. A little stronger than when new! This is at 61459 miles.

COOL!,

love the low end torque on these machines.

did you have the A/F hooked up, and do a bunch of runs?

No, if I saw anything that looked like it needed attention I would have spent a little time with it, but the bikes runs out 100% on the setting suggested by Dobeck. I just did 3 quick pulls, 3rd one was best, no surprise, no holes or flat spots. I was surprised that it hadn't lost a step over the years and miles!