BMW R1200R R1150R/T F800 K1200R R1100R/T R1250R RnineT Message Board

Hello everybody!

I am planning to Techron my gas tank for two refill prior to proceed the usual oil change & in the process switch from Amsoil to Spectro because my mechanic find my spark-plugs a bit too lean since many services.... he think it would help.

The deal is that I already use 91 Chevron (Much better than 89 from 76) since at least two or three years.

So I am wondering what will be the proper dosage for Techron if I already have it in the engine every day?

Thanks for your time!









Just need a quick tip

If you have had Techron in your gas for two years....you are wasting money if you put more in now.

How is a fuel system additive going to improve a "lean condition"?

Hi Ammolad,

According to my mechanic the Amsoil to Spectro oil switch can help with the lean condition...

Also my mechanic while proceeding service noticed some "dark deposit" on parts that should normally be clean

The Techron plan was advised to me by Don Eilenberger in a thread on this forum few weeks ago but I forgot to mention that I was already running 91 Chevron in my engine since a long time.

So apparently I don't need Techron?

Only one mans opinion:

Clean fuel
Clean oil
Clean air.

The rest is poo.

Oil brand is going to do nothing for a lean condition. Spark plugs should be white in these days of clean emissions. The days of reading your plugs are long gone.

If the bike runs good to you and is not pinging, its all good.

I add nothing to my tank and have no problems.
We all have our own ideas.
I am a 52 year old mechanic.
The only thing I do is switch my lower and upper plugs every other oil change.
The oxygen sensor and fuel map take care of how rich or lean the bike runs.

David

thepeacebullgrunt wrote:Hi Ammolad,

According to my mechanic the Amsoil to Spectro oil switch can help with the lean condition...

Also my mechanic while proceeding service noticed some "dark deposit" on parts that should normally be clean

The Techron plan was advised to me by Don Eilenberger in a thread on this forum few weeks ago but I forgot to mention that I was already running 91 Chevron in my engine since a long time.

So apparently I don't need Techron?

Hi Frederik!

Not if you're running Chevron, and doubtful even if you're running most any premium fuel (we don't have Chevron in NJ.) I had my throttle bodies off a month or two ago just to see if they needed cleaning.. and could look right at the back of the intake valves. Spotless. Looked like brand new - and that was at about 64,000 miles. The throttle bodies also looked quite clean, wasn't really anything to clean up (a smudge of dirt on the back of the butterfly, but that was about it..)

I have no idea how switching oil will ever change a lean condition. My WAG - your mechanic is blowing smoke at your posterior region. The upper plugs on the hexheads always look a bit lean, but that's absolutely normal. The bottom plugs may show a bit of darkness on the center insulator - again - absolutely normal. If you have no symptoms of a lean condition (like pinging, lack of top end power) I think you have nothing at all to worry about. The O2 sensors on the hexheads go into action within about 30 seconds of startup and are active all the time, they'll set the mixture to the correct mix any time you hold a constant speed for more than about a second. Anything else you do will be over-ridden by the O2 sensors (why the system LostRider had installed disconnects the O2 feedback loop) and the mixture will go back to what the ECU fuel maps think it should be.

If you're suffering from crappy idle - what I'd found twice now is a bad O2 sensor.. they do and can go bad and the biggest effects are - crappy idle quality, and a bit more buzz at higher RPMs. Dunno what happens if both go bad at the same time, mine have done it one at a time. Need the GS-911 or BMW's computer to look at the output from them to tell.

As far as Amsoil/Spectro - both are a bit pricey. If you're spending this much money you might as well get a good oil for the money. I'm using Castrol TWS 10W-60, an oil made in Germany for the M-car engines, and a real full synthetic (Group 4) oil. Has some excellent qualities as a motorcycle oil (high sheer strength, low viscosity breakdown and a great ZDDP additive package.) Viscosity would seem fine for the LA area. My engine seems quite happy with it and seems to run a tad cooler (which with 100F days does make a difference.) Cost at a BMW car dealer is about the same as BMW oil from the bike dealer (tell the parts people at the dealer you're a "CCA" member.. it's usually worth 10% or so off.)

BTW - what was the thread I mentioned Techron in? I would suggest it if there are symptoms of plugged injectors, or the bike was left sitting with stale gas in it for a longish period of time.

Best regards,

The engine oil used has zero influence on the fuel/air mix ... And all these fuel additives are nothing but voodoo.

Brgds
Oliver

omg1010 wrote:The engine oil used has zero influence on the fuel/air mix ... And all these fuel additives are nothing but voodoo.

Brgds
Oliver

Ummm... Yes, and no.

Yes - motor oil will have no effect on mixture (within reason..)

No - Techron was what BMW used to repackage and sell under their name for the mid and late '80's 6 cylinder engines, which had a problem with "coking" of the intake valves. The fuel available at the time had no detergent in it, and the injectors used would tend to dribble a bit after engine shutoff. This caused the buildup of carbon deposits on the back face and stem of the intake valves. The carbon buildup could reach 1/2" thick, and would tend to absorb gasoline while the engine is running, and then release it when the engine was shut down, causing difficulty in starting due to the rich mixture. It also caused other running problems.

BMW first tried (1) There is no problem (2) It's your fault (3) What problem? (4) coming up with a device allowing the dealers to walnut-shell blast the intake valves to remove the carbon (5) partnering with Chevron on developing Techron (6) setting a standard fo "top-tier" gas in the US - that has sufficient detergent in the gas to prevent this from happening.

I'm real familiar with this problem - I owned a few of those cars. Techron is real, and does have a purpose. Thing is - the quality of gasoline has improved enough that most of the time it's unneeded.

Thanks guys for your participation!
& Hello Don! (I just PM you with a little more to read...)

Don, I think the post where you recommended me to use Techron was called "rejuvenation",
So! I am going to forget the two Techron gas tank to fill before oil change. And certainly forget the Spectro oil that my mechanic is willing to use instead of the Amsoil. My mechanic says it's better to run semi synthetic than full synthetic... but you know me a little....I really have no clues to debate with him on that and in general about mechanic stuff beside what I feel when I ride.

Actually I don't feel the bike has a crappy idle and I can push it with loading up to 120mph pretty easily. My average speed in LA on freeway being more often in the 80/100 mph than the conventional 60/85 mph. Bike mileage is nearing 80 000 these days.

So you are %100 positive on the bike being totally fine if switching from Amsoil SAE 20W-50 to Castrol TWS 10W-60? The switch from 20W-50 to 10W-60 is totally fine? considering the weather in LA, my daily riding habits... the fact that I mostly commute all over LA county with an average riding time of 15 to 55 mns 2 to 6 times a day and my actual mileage being around 80 000 now...

Thanks for your help!
Have a nice week
Frederic

thepeacebullgrunt wrote:So you are %100 positive on the bike being totally fine if switching from Amsoil SAE 20W-50 to Castrol TWS 10W-60? The switch from 20W-50 to 10W-60 is totally fine? considering the weather in LA, my daily riding habits... the fact that I mostly commute all over LA county with an average riding time of 15 to 55 mns 2 to 6 times a day and my actual mileage being around 80 000 now...

Thanks for your help!
Have a nice week
Frederic

It's what's in my bike at the moment, so.. don't think I'd use it if I wasn't pretty doggone confident in it. Despite what people claim (like my son) it does get hot in LA sometimes.. especially if you wander up to the valley..

Okay! While web browsing I also noticed that there is the CASTROL TWS 10W-60 and the CASTROL EDGE 10W-60 but the EDGE isn't approved & available at BMW car dealers. Thanks I needed some clarification & will call my nearest BMW car dealer soon.

I'll offer that the best thing you can do is find another mechanic!
Have you had the TB's synch'd recently?

Regards,Paul

Roadfool, trust me in Los Angeles they are all the same... I am exaggerating a little but they are either BMW dealers "who try to deal you a new motorcycle" anytime you show up to fix a puncture or when you just need a set of break pads let's say (As if you were Tom Cruise looking for a $15000 tissue to sneeze in). Or in the name of safety & pride of owning a BMW will do anything to round your bill close to a $1000 anytime you show up. but of course you'll always have your nice sofa, internet corner & coffee, not to mention the 10 mns very serious & often scary "lectures" on your bike situation as if your bike was a cutting edge spaceship made out a rare metal collected on an exotic galaxy. Welcome in LA my friend! a city where consumers are more likely "working" for business models...all day long from their morning Starbuck, BMW dealers to their nightly HBO session to put them asleep.

Or you get %50 to %70 cheaper overwhelmed independent mechanics (former BMW dealers employees) most often working alone in their back alley with who you better keep it hyper extra cool, track yourself everything happening on your damn bike, double check everything by yourself... and be tolerant. If it is a good independent mechanic it's going to be fine. So far that's how my independent mechanic is. over time I learned how to respect his grumpiness & "special touch" and he is definitely not the worse mechanic to deal with here because I tested few of them at the beginning.

But if you can recommend me a business in between the two "extremes" I just described in LA or around, please do? ... I'll check it out.

That was a great post!
Made my day . . . Thanks

About the oil and making the bike run richer.

I been doing this oil change thing for a long time. I have to "Dispose" of 50 gallons of oil every month or so. I need a paper trail to show where it went. I am over 50 and own a garage. Been a mechanic all my life. Owned motorcycles since about 10 years old.

My question is this guy that told you the bike will run richer with a different oil. Does he think you are not too bright or DOES HE REALLY BELIEVE IT HIMSELF?

I do understand your problem. Mechanics will say anything to make a buck.

It just pees me off! This is one reason I have my own shop instead of working at a car dealer or repair shop where they pay the mechanics by the job or what they can sell.

Sorry rant over.

David

thepeacebullgrunt wrote:Okay! While web browsing I also noticed that there is the CASTROL TWS 10W-60 and the CASTROL EDGE 10W-60 but the EDGE isn't approved & available at BMW car dealers. Thanks I needed some clarification & will call my nearest BMW car dealer soon.

Actually - they're basically the same thing, and the BMW car dealers are now selling Edge "Professional", on the back it has the BMW approval. "Exclusive Approval for BMW M-Models" and a BMW Part Number (83 12 2 219 730) Some dealers may still have older stock labeled as TWS. Make sure on the back label it has that approval statement, and it says "Manufactured in the EU" It seems as if Castrol likes confusion.. but they seem to be moving all their synthetics to the "Edge" line name.

EU, approval, BMW part# - you're OK.

BTW - if you REALOEM that PN - it will come back with an interesting listing. It is the specified oil for the K29-HP2-Sport
http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do ... g=11&fg=05 - whch is the high performance version of our engine. That's a good thing IMHO.

@ Don : Thanks I got it... of course it was something like $57 for 4 quarts with the %10 discount and it has all the info you recommended me to check in your post. Actually there packaging seems to have changed compare to what I saw online prior to visit the dealer. The "Edge" branding is more discreet and "TWS" almost as much visible so it seems to be just the one and same thing.

@ Bob: Glad you liked it... yes indeed I have nothing really against dealers but sometimes/often at least here in LA they are way too much in there business model for me and unfortunately I end up just using their fresh water fountain or free coffee spot instead of trying to deal anything with them...it's almost sad actually.

@ David: I do have to confess that I am pretty dimmed when it matter to mechanical stuff... I am soon 50 too and I never owned a car neither used a car license. Always lived in huge city's and always thought motorcycle was much better than car for an active lifestyle. My independent mechanic is a Venice beach man... those guys are made of a special compound and I will ask him if "HE REALLY BELIEVE HIMSELF?" I am sure he will come up with few mumbled words & heavy breathing that I will understand the meaning soon or later along during my Jedi formation.

@ roadfool: TB's are always synch'd every 3 to 5000 miles.

I don't know why you guys going for most expensiev oil is the best oil.?? It is apsolutly on you.Shell Rotella 15w40 dino oil just doing perfect job in my bike.12,95$ at walmart at Sidney,NE for a gallon.Rated SM for gasolin engines.Way above SF.I drive my r12 in above 35 C stop and go traffic.Temperature gauge only one bar up.So???I can not see engine suffering of high temps.At night club payig girl $50 might doing better than paying girl$500.????!!!!!I am alive so I am thinking.It is up to you.

Best regards,Steve H.l

I use quality oil based on tests done of my used oil. Less wear, better lubrication go hand in hand. I particularly look for an oil with a high ZDDP content, which is a very GOOD THING on flat-tappet engines (which we have.) Synthetic keeps it's viscosity longer so the "new oil" feel lasts much longer.

If you prefer the $50 nightclub girl that's fine, glad to hear you're still alive. If the same girl has two prices ($50 and $500) I believe you're going to the wrong places.

My Venice beach overwhelmed mechanic made of a special.... venician compound...say that it's better to use semi-synthetic and he also says a few time that full synthetic can suddenly break down and make a mess of the engine reason also why he recommend to still change synthetic every 3 or 4000 miles. Go figure!

I am going to try the TWS Castrol anyway... I don't care to pay a little more for that, even for the gas... when my 2008 R1200R will be dead I'll probably buy the same used with low mileage and swap all my actual accessory's on it. That's where I am planning to save money in the future. But I am curious to see how long will last the one I have now.

Frederik,

Your Venience mechanic is as we'd say in NJ "A piece of work.." (rough translation to SO-CAL, "asswipe"..)

He's spouting nonsense, but you know that already. I think you just have to become his customer who never listens to him that he can complain about to all his other customers. Every "piece of work" mechanic has that customer, so it appears to be your role in your relationship with him.

I'll be interested in how your engine feels when you finally get the Castrol into it.. I'm still liking how mine feels..