Batteries and cold weather

mrsteve · Post by **mrsteve** » Sun Dec 18, 2011 2:13 pm

Hi Everyone. I've been absent for a while, building a kitchen, looking after elderly mother, and making sure my wife is happy, you know the sort of thing. But today the sun shone and I thought Yes at last I have a couple of hours free, lets get out on the bike. The temperature was just nudging zero but the sun's out. Get all kitted out, boots on, helmet on, unlock the barn. There she is in all her glory, black, a bit dusty as I forgot the dust sheet last time but hell that'll all go once we get moving. Throw a leg over, key in the ignition, click, whirrrr, nothing. Click, whirrrr, nothing. Bugger. Helmet off and for the next hour I removed the plastic, unbolted the tank and set on a padded chair at the side so we did not disconnect all the pipes. Then out with the battery and get it on charge. The date however is 02/2005 so it's probably had it. I'll charge it now but if it's not showing green in the morning I'm getting a new battery. Such is life. It's the first failure since I bought it back in July so I'll let her off. Anyway it's Christmas so I hope you all have a great time and have better luck than I did today. See you soon, Steve

omg1010 · Post by **omg1010** » Sun Dec 18, 2011 5:41 pm

Hi Steve,

our bikes are known for slowly dragging the battery - the clock for example ...

Hence if you do not disconnect your battery or keep her on a charger you're likely to end up like today! I had the same some years back and killed a battery cause I did not have electricity in my garage. Now I have and did not have such problem again.

Brgds
Oliver

Post by **Biff's R** » Sun Dec 18, 2011 5:43 pm

One thing to look into is a charger that fits into your accessory outlet. Battery Tender is a good one. But a 6 year old battery is probably close to shot.

Rog(UK) - Yorkshire Dales · Sun Dec 18, 2011 5:50 pm

Does your bike not have the posts on the left hand side of the machine (near the cylinder) onto which you can attach the crocodile clips of a battery charger?

mrsteve · Post by **mrsteve** » Mon Dec 19, 2011 4:39 pm

Thanks for your input Guys. I'll take a look to see if the posts are accessible. If not I'll wire in the charging socket that came with my Optimate II. I know, I should have done it in the summer ready for winter. But hey you're right Biff, the battery is shot. It's been on charge all night and is showing weak on the charger. The new one is already on its way. My chrissy present!
Happy Christmas fellers.
Steve

Post by **towerworker** » Mon Dec 19, 2011 10:44 pm

Going to a lighter weight oil in the crankcase will ease the load on the starter as well. I run (or ran!) 20/50 in summer and 10/40 winter. Made a big difference in cold starting. Be mindful of cold pavement and cold tires as well. Bad combination where traction is concerned. And as Jeff said--a battery tender is a good investment. Your new battery will love you for it!

Wayne

Sunbeemer · Post by **Sunbeemer** » Mon Dec 19, 2011 11:26 pm

Wayne, aren't you forgetting something????

antifreeze

Merry Christmas!

Post by **georgek** » Mon Jan 20, 2014 1:41 pm

my roadster lost a full charge in a week in 25-40 F weather. it's not completely dead, but it's almost there.
is that normal, or would i need a new battery? it's 3 years old.

AZBMWRIDER · Post by **AZBMWRIDER** » Mon Jan 20, 2014 3:12 pm

The battery on these bikes is undersized for the job it has to doin cold temps, it's the same battery that are in my airhead 650's .
There are some AGM type batteries with 22ah capacity, don't know if they are available in your corner of the world or not .
Keeping the battery on a ' tender or maintainer ' is the best thing you can do during the off season .
Lighter oil will take some load off of the starter, I went to a full synthetic (Mobil 1 motorcycle oil) on my Guzzi 650 and what a difference in starter speed, over the oil I was using before .

martinjmpr · Post by **martinjmpr** » Thu Jan 23, 2014 10:42 am

mrsteve wrote:Thanks for your input Guys. I'll take a look to see if the posts are accessible. If not I'll wire in the charging socket that came with my Optimate II. I know, I should have done it in the summer ready for winter. But hey you're right Biff, the battery is shot. It's been on charge all night and is showing weak on the charger. The new one is already on its way. My chrissy present!
Happy Christmas fellers.
Steve

Don't all 1150's have the Powerlet socket on the left side of the engine case, near the footpeg? Mine does, and that's where I plug in the battery tender.

I bought a Triumph Scrambler new in 2009, put a battery tender on it and the factory-original battery was still going strong when I sold it last month. I'm a big believer in battery tenders, especially when you consider that a motorcycle-sized battery tender costs less than half of what a new battery costs.

AZBMWRIDER · Post by **AZBMWRIDER** » Thu Jan 23, 2014 11:51 am

My '02 R came with a plug in the hole over the starter, the wires were tied back and secured under the cover .

if you do install the outlet, remember that one of the leads is ' hot ' it comes direct from the battery and has power available regardless of the ignition switch position .

You'll realize this when you get the ' shower of sparks ' if the bare lead touches a ground while installing the outlet !!!!!!!!

You most likely will melt the fuse that protects this circuit, this fuse also controls the power to the clock, so it will stop then if the fuse melts .

Post by **CycleRob** » Thu Jan 23, 2014 5:07 pm

Using a (Deltran) Battery Tender Plus is a great way to extend your bike batterys' lifespan. After reading everything for years about M/C batteries and their care I came up with a way to GUARANTEE it gets a 100% full charge. After the Battery Tender shows a steady green light from it's overnight charge, I UNPLUG the AC power, wait 10 seconds and plug it back in again. That re-initiates the full charge cycle again, giving it the all important sustained charging time at 14.7 Volts which contributes the most to the full charge and proper chemical balance. I do it 2 or 3 times each time it is connected to the Tender, for 2 weeks at a time, the most, because of bad or freezing weather. It then gets hooked up to the rarely used pickup truck because here in Georgia winter is STILL the riding season, even for my old bones.

Cold weather and winter always reveals a weakened, over-aged or abused/neglected battery with a "no start". The frigid 50 weight oil dragging on 4" diameter pistons with their 10:1 compression ratio adds to the 1,100 Watt draw of the starter and all that literally overloads the normally diminished power of a very cold battery. Also add in the fact that the battery is partially sulphated from aging, a lack of proper off season charging and in season usage with the engine running. A new OilHead battery not taken care of and abused will only last 1 year. That very same battery fully cared for as if it were your favorite dog, will easily last SIX years! BTDT.

My F800 series bike has a reputation for having a very common SuddenDeathBatterySyndrome (SDBS) at anytime almost immediately after it's 2nd year of use. My on-board 3 LED voltmeter confirmed it was NOT a wiggy charging system - - - the voltage regulation was good except for the rare times at engine idle with the radiator fan and the brake light on. Since seemingly every replacement battery brand succumbed to this failure, my observation was that the top-of-the-airbox battery cavity it is mounted in has too much engine vibration transmission and engine heat associated with it for a good battery lifespan. Either one of those harmful environments are not good, but both of them together will give you those SBDS failures. The vibration was minimized with the early-on addition of a rectangular bottom panel of rigid closed cell shipping foam. This salvaged shipping foam is so rigid that standing barefoot on a single sheet of it, I could not feel the cement floor below.

The engine heat transmission is minimized, not just by the supporting foam sheet, but by leaving the bike outside to cool off in the shade or parking in the shade while away. At 22,147 miles (35,642 km) and now being over 4 years 7 months old it was just checked, still unused for 3 days after being removed from it's Battery Tender Plus, at 12.68 Volts. We love our adorable 8 month old Jack Russell puppy (rescued last July 27 from the local Gainesville Humane Society) -and- I still care for my bike's original BMW brand battery.

EDIT: To change photo providers. Also, My BMW original battery lasted 6 years 9 months!! Replaced it 5-5-15 with a Yuasa GYZ16H for $89.24

.

turrider · Post by **turrider** » Thu Jan 23, 2014 5:30 pm

Do you guys have a "favourite brand" for the battery ? right now i have a bosch and for ex.last week after 1 month stay in the garage run as if no time lag was present. Ignition and then "roar" of the bike...

AZBMWRIDER · Post by **AZBMWRIDER** » Thu Jan 23, 2014 9:11 pm

It depends on your location for batteries .
I reside in a desert and batteries for motorcycles last about 2-3 years due to the extreme heat for 6 monhts of the year, no matter what brand you choose .
I've used the Odyssey PC680, but they last as long as a less costly ' generic ' AGM type battery .
Can't tell where to call home from your profile .
Here's one battery I've used a few times .

http://www.radioshack.com/product/index ... d=11909407

This company is local for me, 15 minute drive from work, I started using them and get the same life as the more costly batteries .
I have two in my oilhead, non-ABS bike, the airhead 650's and the Guzzi all have this same battery as well .
I get them wholesale for $23 each .

http://www.gruberpower.com/12-volt-18-a ... ah-battery

turrider · Post by **turrider** » Fri Jan 24, 2014 6:06 pm

Location resides in the northern part of Turkey; near to sea over a plato surrounded by mountains. So humidity is of concern and foggy weather. Actually locally produced batteries drain too fast here on the bike where as german brands go plenty of years. I was wondering whether there are certain batteries for dry areas and for wet areas provided that the bike is in good condition.

AZBMWRIDER · Post by **AZBMWRIDER** » Fri Jan 24, 2014 8:03 pm

There's only a few types of batteries for motorcycles, the standard ' flooded ' type, where you have to add water to the cells if the fluid level gets low, sealed ' maintenance free ' standard battery where you can't add water, AGM ( absorbed glass mat ) a sealed lead acid battery and lithium ion .
Only one I would caution you on, is the lithium ion type, they seem to have issues when the temperature gets below 12-13 C .
Depending on what is available to you locally, I'd get an AGM if the cost isn't excessive .

captaincable · Post by **captaincable** » Sat Jan 25, 2014 8:32 am

I would think a good battery would last for weeks if not a couple of months without charging , Mine has been in a un heated garage for 5-6 weeks (Pc-680) since I got a new to me pickup it turned over about two times and fired right up. I dont ever use battery tenders and don't ever recommend them to any one , you would be much better off buying a higher end charger with diagnostics ($100 to $150 )and occasionally charging your battery and from what I am getting from these battery threads often it sounds like some trouble shooting is in order. Unless you really keep a eye on your tender or charger and only use it overnight or a little longer in really cold weather you are going to harm not help your battery.
Just saying
Mike
I just thought of a example My sons have small Suzuki 4 wheelers with small batteries and they have been setting for awhile (at least 10 months to a year ) and one had a dead battery which was weak before the were parked and the other ok , the weak one was dead and the other turned the motor over very easy and for several revolutions , had the gas been good it would have fired .

turrider · Post by **turrider** » Wed Jan 29, 2014 11:02 am

I do agree with AGM types. Lead acid batteries can not tolerate deep cycles. Even yearly capex seems low for investment for a bike. If your bike breathes well, and maintenance is good AGM s are suitable. Lead acids can not even tolerate recharges after draining caused by hard to ignite cases.

martinjmpr · Post by **martinjmpr** » Wed Feb 05, 2014 6:20 pm

captaincable wrote:I dont ever use battery tenders and don't ever recommend them to any one , you would be much better off buying a higher end charger with diagnostics ($100 to $150 )and occasionally charging your battery and from what I am getting from these battery threads often it sounds like some trouble shooting is in order. Unless you really keep a eye on your tender or charger and only use it overnight or a little longer in really cold weather you are going to harm not help your battery.

I'm curious to know, is your negative view of battery tenders based on any actual experience? Because mine is the exact opposite. I ran a battery tender on my Scrambler for 5 years and the battery stayed nice and strong, even when I went months without starting the bike due to weather or other commitments. Ditto for my wife's Intruder, which I put on a battery tender after the original battery died the first winter we had it. For the next 3 years we'd alternate the battery tender between her bike and mine, and both bikes never hestitated starting up. After we sold her bike in April of '12 the tender went onto my Scrambler full time.

captaincable · Post by **captaincable** » Fri Feb 07, 2014 7:56 am

I dont recommend using any kind of charger long term . I have used trickle / maintenance chargers in the past for weeks at a time and started to notice on at least two or three batteries only lasted a couple of years , one in particular was in a truck it was a maintenace type you add distilled water to, it would boil the water out by quite a bit in just a few days. another on a 4 wheeler. Have seen many deep cycle batteries also have shorter life spans. I could give several examples of this . But I really started to think it was a problem is talking to other bikers about batteries among other things and them complaining about short battery life and one thing seemed to keep coming up, using chargers or tenders for days, weeks and a lot longer.
I started just occasionally charging the batteries if needed and have not had a problem.
Used to setup standby battery systems for CATV and phone systems and it was a constant battle with under and over charging depending on equipt, loads , weather , location etc.
I guess its possible everthing I mentioned above was just bad batteries and would have happened anyway but I dont think so.
Hope the tender keeps working well for you , sounds like alternating it between bikes is the way to go.
Mike

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