BMW R1200R R1150R/T F800 K1200R R1100R/T R1250R RnineT Message Board

What would you ask him about the R1200R? We know this bike inside and out, so the more detail, the better.

Here are three ideas:

• What is the design theory of Motorrad, and how is it applied to the R1200R?
• There are some obvious design changes to the 2011 R12R — what about the not-so-obvious?
• What would an experienced R12R rider be surprised to learn about the model?

I'm in touch with one of their flaks — more to come.

Flaks ?

What's with the stupid air scoops on the front of the fuel tank?

I'd rather carry 2L less fuel and have a tank that doesn't wrap around the forks.

ContraMoto wrote:What's with the stupid air scoops on the front of the fuel tank?

I'd rather carry 2L less fuel and have a tank that doesn't wrap around the forks.

Hear, hear .. I actually like the design, but the turbulence created by it is not worth the "look". Mind you, I ride with GS Adventure guys with huge tanks, so I need the extra fuel range!

Why does the passenger have to ride so high above the rider?

ContraMoto wrote:What's with the stupid air scoops on the front of the fuel tank?

I'd rather carry 2L less fuel and have a tank that doesn't wrap around the forks.

I believe the appearance would be a tad odd (or at least much different) without the forward part of the tank, and to have the foward part - you need clearance for the fork tubes. They may function as air scoops - but they weren't designed as such. Might be better if the backing was shaped to direct the air down toward the engine..

ka5ysy wrote:Flaks ?

Pardon my jargon. Public relations, PR, PressGroup, etc.

Contact made with the Motorrad mothership

Please submit any design/engineering questions about the 2007-2011 model of our R12Rs in this topic. A few more lame questions from me:
• Why the beefier forks for 2011?
• Why was the instrumentation redesigned for 2011?
• Seat and windshields are among the most-discussed issues on the forum. Some love, but a lot of discontent. How are seats and shields tested during R&D?

Q: Why so big? If you look at a R12R next to, say, a 1980's R65, it's HUGE! Can't you make it smaller?

Q: What about a entry lvl boxer? Give us a stripped down R800R!

Tarmac wrote:Q: Why so big? If you look at a R12R next to, say, a 1980's R65, it's HUGE! Can't you make it smaller?

Q: What about a entry lvl boxer? Give us a stripped down R800R!

I used to own an R65 (first BMW bike actually..) and it was certainly as heavy as the R12R.. and felt large enough. I guess it's all perspective..

As far as an "entry" level boxer - we're on it. As BMW found with earlier ones like the R850R - it cost them very close to the same amount of money to produce a smaller bike, and marketing it was much harder. If it wasn't for euro graduated riding (where you have to work your way up to larger displacement bikes) and the great increase in insurance premiums in Europe for larger bikes - people simply wouldn't buy them. I wouldn't. If I wanted a smaller displacement bike, I'd be looking at the F series.. or another brand.

BTW - if you really want to know what's up with BMW-Motorrad AG - this article with the head dude is really revealing (including debunking the water-cooled-boxer hoax..): http://cyclenews.coverleaf.com/cyclenews/20110426/#pg49

Very interesting reading..

Outstanding article, Don, thanks much.

If they end up selling that Concept 6 cafe racer, it'll be the end of my marriage for sure.

deilenberger wrote:BTW - if you really want to know what's up with BMW-Motorrad AG - this article with the head dude is really revealing (including debunking the water-cooled-boxer hoax..): http://cyclenews.coverleaf.com/cyclenews/20110426/#pg49

Very interesting reading..

Part Deux http://cyclenews.coverleaf.com/cyclenews/20110503/#pg53 Excellent READ!

deilenberger wrote:

Tarmac wrote:Q: Why so big? If you look at a R12R next to, say, a 1980's R65, it's HUGE! Can't you make it smaller?

Q: What about a entry lvl boxer? Give us a stripped down R800R!

I used to own an R65 (first BMW bike actually..) and it was certainly as heavy as the R12R.. and felt large enough. I guess it's all perspective..

As far as an "entry" level boxer - we're on it. As BMW found with earlier ones like the R850R - it cost them very close to the same amount of money to produce a smaller bike, and marketing it was much harder. If it wasn't for euro graduated riding (where you have to work your way up to larger displacement bikes) and the great increase in insurance premiums in Europe for larger bikes - people simply wouldn't buy them. I wouldn't. If I wanted a smaller displacement bike, I'd be looking at the F series.. or another brand.

It's a funny old world, and we don't all see things the same way.

I am still riding my R850R, and, while I'd like to update it to a new bike, I'm not that impressed with having to move into the 1200 class.

Insurance is an issue here in Oz, not a deal breaker, but an issue.

The F-series just doesn't do it for me..... they aren't "proper" BMs in my eyes. <shrug>

For my purposes, my 850 has more than adequate power with an elegant smoothness. It does everything I want it to do, and does it comfortably.

regards,CrazyCam

Why dose every new model BMW get a worse seat particularly for pillion then the model it replaced
Why do you ripe off your Australian customers so much eg bikes 30% dearer then USA parts up to 150% dearer
And why have you closed all the independent dealers witch results in only one dealer per state in Australia that can mean the nearest dealer could be 1000Ks away and fault codes and service intervals can't be reset, and if your adventure bikes fault in a remote area and the bike stops it would be cheaper to just leave it then get a recovered. This could be as simple a fault as a side stand switch.

Neil wrote:Why dose every new model BMW get a worse seat particularly for pillion then the model it replaced
Why do you ripe off your Australian customers so much eg bikes 30% dearer then USA parts up to 150% dearer
And why have you closed all the independent dealers witch results in only one dealer per state in Australia that can mean the nearest dealer could be 1000Ks away and fault codes and service intervals can't be reset, and if your adventure bikes fault in a remote area and the bike stops it would be cheaper to just leave it then get a recovered. This could be as simple a fault as a side stand switch.

I doubt if David Robb has any answers to any of those questions, since he's a designer, not in the business end of BMW-Motarrad. You might ask those questions of the chap who was interviewed in the two articles above.

And as far as "ripe off" (rip off?) of Oz customers - what's the Oz dollar to US dollar today? Just looked - $1.07 Oz to $1.00 US... so that accounts for 7% of 30%, I'm guessing they will claim the rest is overhead given the smaller number of bikes imported a greater distance. As a guess on the independent dealers - they may not have been making money or providing the level of service BMW feels is deserved. Not that having no service is a good answer to that dilemma. The US has some rather large areas of the country with no BMW dealers also.. it's not just you. The complexity of the bikes (which isn't going to change while the bikes continue selling and the governments make requirements that cause complexity) means that many mom and pop shops just couldn't service bikes they were selling. Not enough market to sell enough bikes to send a wrench to BMW tech school (and that is a continuing thing - the education doesn't stop when they get a job..)

Lots of Catch-22's. I'd recommend the two articles - it will give some insight of the man in charge's thinking.

Neil wrote:Why dose every new model BMW get a worse seat particularly for pillion then the model it replaced

Hi Neil.

The answer to your first question is marketing.

Roadsters of 10 to 15 years ago, used to have reasonably good seats, so a bloke would carry the missus for a decent ride.

Now, the rear seat looks like it's designed for picking up 14 year old schoolgirls, and those of us who want to take the wife for a decent ride are expected to buy the big Star Ship Enterprise models.

Neil wrote:Why do you ripe off your Australian customers so much eg bikes 30% dearer then USA parts up to 150% dearer

The answer to this question is..... the Dog's dingle Principle..... because they can.

Things are going to change in Oz, since we are becoming more aware of how we have been ripped off in the past.

There are, already, folk setting up to "grey import" Harleys and big Beemers because of the mark-up that Ozzie distributors have gotten into the habit of charging.

The rest of your complaint, I snipped.... but, basically we are a tiny pimple on the bum of the world market.

Some countries have cities with more population that the whole of Australia.

regards,CrazyCam

I get what you are saying but I did not know BMW was now an Italian Company (you know form before function)
And as far as cost goes I will give a couple of examples Hand brake lever in OZ $165.00 and I would have to go 100Ks each way to pickup from MOTORWORKS in Yorkshire England $67.00 in my letter box. Set of panniers OZ $1550.00 two F800R mirrors (for my R1200R ) $130.00 each plus the 200Ks round trip to pick up from MOTORWORKS the lot $1035.00 courier to my door witch included $200.00 air freight admit idly I did not have to pay GST that would be $80.00 but you half to admit BMW Australia is steeling from us . The sooner we get an independent importer of bikes and parts the better.
I also believe faults and resets should be displayed and be able to be reset with the on board computer as Deilen pointed out in many countries you could be a very long way from a dealer.

My question regarding BMW boxers has always been: have they ever considered using a 90 degree crankshaft ?

This would not make a 'true' boxer engine of course but would make it more like the 90 degree twin of a Moto Guzzi.
The exhaust note would be lower because of more of the fundamental harmonic. Also the 'rocking' motion
of the engine (with the crank in the driving direction) would be more pronounced. All in all I think it would give
the R1200R loads more character.

I think it's a relatively easy change. 90 degree crank, cams must be offset a bit which is easy cause they're
chain driven and of course some small changes to the injection/ignition timing. Because of the constant
kinetic energy in the pistons maybe the balancing shaft can be omitted.

I would definately pay $1000 extra if the 90degree crank was made an option in the option list....

Please help us with a good fuel strip.

Robert