BMW R1200R R1150R/T F800 K1200R R1100R/T R1250R RnineT Message Board

I was riding to work today and it started raining. I do mostly freeway going to and from work. The exit ramps from the freeway are both 270 degree turns that are very fun in dry weather but in wet weather is am more that a little nervous. I should just trust that the tires will hold but I can't. I have read in the various forums that certain tires grip better in rain that others do. How do people test this without crashing? I know my tires, Continental Attack 2, tires will hold more in the rain than I am asking them to buy how much more? How can I get more confident in wet weather but not OVER confident? Any information would be great.

Roger L

I'm just guessing - either you're a fairly new rider, or one who has little rain experience?

The modern tires (especially the Pilot-Road II and III) have amazing grip in wet weather. But - there are a few things to remember:

1 - 1st flush: The first 20 minutes or so of rain are when all the ground up tire debris that is sitting on the pavement becomes a slurry of slippery stuff. Don't expect a lot of grip until it's rained enough to wash that munge off the pavement.

2 - Center of lanes AVOID: They will be slippery. Avoid them. Even after the first flush. Cars drip oil (less now then they used to - but they still do) - especially when coming to a stop and taking off. The oil works its way into the pavement, and with water on it becomes as slick as snot.. so watch out for the center of a lane, especially when nearing stops of any type.

3 - Relax. Don't tense up: With modern tires - with decent tread on them - a bike can be amazingly stable. SMOOTH is the big trick for wet weather. Make ALL inputs smooth (acceleration, braking, shifting, turning) which helps avoid traction need peaks. I make a game out of it - how smooth CAN I be?

4 - Offramps - take it easy on them: If you have some butthead tailgating you - put on your four-way flasher, they'll usually get the clue and back off. Don't go for max lean angles - it will end up with your sliding out. Go for smooth, avoid the center of the lane, and did I mention smooth?

5 - Any metal or rubber surfaces like manholes, gratings, railroad crossings: Treat them like ice. Avoid them if possible, if not - try to cross them upright (no lean) and very smoothly. Avoid braking or swerving or shifting while on them.

I get into a rain-riding zone, and actually some of my most enjoyable rides have been in all-day rains. Seems odd, but there is something really neat about feeling secure and dry in my Aerostich while it's pouring rain. Slow down a bit, don't press the envelope and you'll be just fine.

I agree with every thing above and add one. Watch out for paint. Especially crosswalks, stop lights, etc... The road paint can be very slippery when wet. Don't make any big changes to the bike when crossing these. Don't accelerate, brake or initiate a turn. And, DON'T TENSE UP! Often times if the bike starts to slip, just let it slip and don't try a big correction, just a sort of minor go with it type of correction. Many times it will stop slipping just as quickly and if you have a large correction already initiated, you could be in even worse shape. I rode in heavy rain just the other day and I had to go through all of that in my head because it has been years since I've had a bike that I would ride in rain. Everything was fine and I was impressed with the grip and handling of the 1200R as usual.
Have fun!
-jim

deilenberger wrote:I'm just guessing - either you're a fairly new rider, or one who has little rain experience?

The modern tires (especially the Pilot-Road II and III) have amazing grip in wet weather. But - there are a few things to remember:

1 - 1st flush: The first 20 minutes or so of rain are when all the ground up tire debris that is sitting on the pavement becomes a slurry of slippery stuff. Don't expect a lot of grip until it's rained enough to wash that munge off the pavement.

2 - Center of lanes AVOID: They will be slippery. Avoid them. Even after the first flush. Cars drip oil (less now then they used to - but they still do) - especially when coming to a stop and taking off. The oil works its way into the pavement, and with water on it becomes as slick as snot.. so watch out for the center of a lane, especially when nearing stops of any type.

3 - Relax. Don't tense up: With modern tires - with decent tread on them - a bike can be amazingly stable. SMOOTH is the big trick for wet weather. Make ALL inputs smooth (acceleration, braking, shifting, turning) which helps avoid traction need peaks. I make a game out of it - how smooth CAN I be?

4 - Offramps - take it easy on them: If you have some butthead tailgating you - put on your four-way flasher, they'll usually get the clue and back off. Don't go for max lean angles - it will end up with your sliding out. Go for smooth, avoid the center of the lane, and did I mention smooth?

5 - Any metal or rubber surfaces like manholes, gratings, railroad crossings: Treat them like ice. Avoid them if possible, if not - try to cross them upright (no lean) and very smoothly. Avoid braking or swerving or shifting while on them.

I get into a rain-riding zone, and actually some of my most enjoyable rides have been in all-day rains. Seems odd, but there is something really neat about feeling secure and dry in my Aerostich while it's pouring rain. Slow down a bit, don't press the envelope and you'll be just fine.

Don,

Well said! I have noticed the PR3 are VERY well suited for the rain. Also, someone was telling me about the baby shampoo film on the helmet shield trick, but have not implemented it yet. Supposed to help with fogging, etc. Anyone try this out for the rain/cold? Thoughts?

Thanks.

I was about to make a similar post. My 2010 R12R is the first bike I've ridden in about 15 years so my skills are more than rusty. Diving back from work yesterday 150mi in rain from heavy to drizzle I was a bit freaked out at the start. I knew I was being overly cautious but I really didn't want to dump the bike or get hurt so I rode like a complete nooby. I've put on 13K mile since buying the bike but somehow almost none of that was in heavy rain.

So after a few miles, I had gone through a list of "do's and don'ts" that mirror's Don's. I was careful to avoid the center of the lane and was keenly aware of paint and manhole covers. About 30 miles in, I stopped to take a quick break and thought things through. After careful consideration I determined the worst thing that could happen is that I could low-side if I lost traction while cornering. Fortunately the route back home was full of twisty's and relatively low speeds so I decided to "trust my tires" and just go for it. Worst case is that I would low-side and slide along a wet road for a short distance. I was well geared up so I took the calculated risk.

Bottom-line is that the tires are more capable than my tolerance of extreme lean angles allow me to lean the bike. I don't know if the hero pegs would touch down before the tires give out in the wet but I expect that is the case. My plan going forward is to buy a very good riding suit, and see what the tire will do. And if it low-sides, well then that's why I have the bike fully insured.

cheers,

As a RR newby, consider me freaked out as well. Plus, I don't have quite the balance I once had. Still working with Don's list on the virtual kneeboard.

I figure it's a matter of time and miles.

Thanks for the good information. The R1200R is my first standard bike. I came from having a Suzuki M50 and a Honda VLX. I do most of my riding commuting to work and back and not much riding in the rain. I put over 20K miles on the M50 in 4 years mostly commuting. I bought the R1200R in December and the weather is just starting to get nice enough in northern Ohio to do some riding. I am starting to get the feel of the bike and it feels good. When I see the shine of the wet road in the corners I do start to tense up. I need to remember to slow down and keep it smooth and trust the tires. It is all mental.


Thanks Again

Roger L

After the 1st time you go into a wet turn, and feel the front tire slide 6", you will never be the same

Tarmac wrote:After the 1st time you go into a wet turn, and feel the front tire slide 6", you will never be the same

I drifted both tires @ 45+ on a turn when I found some light dirt on my line. It's a strange feeling when the bike doesn't move in the direction it's pointed. LOL

All good points previously noted.

One thing to remember generally, but especially in the rain is this: Smooth throttle, Smooth clutch, Smooth brakes. The bike will be most happy the smoother you get on the basics. Do not snap on/off the throttle, grab brakes or clutch in an "on-off" switch fashion.

Modern tires have amazing grip if you believe in them and let them do their work in concert with the basics noted above. The Continental Road Attack 2's are a very sticky tire and do very well in wet conditions. Trust your tires (but keep the pressures correct !)

Get in the habit, as we teach in MSF/Riders Edge classes, of reading the road surface and adjust your speed accordingly. When you are going into a turn, use the SLOW-LOOK-PRESS-ROLL technique, with particular emphasis on the SLOW DOWN part. It saves a whole lot of pucker factor.

I might also suggest that you sign up for an MSF basic rider course and refresh your skills if you have not done so already. We teach a lot of things that are not evident and save a lot of "asphaltic experience" or worse.

Riding in the rain, properly equipped, is not a big deal at all, and kind of fun watching the looks of the cagers when you ride by or at a stop.

Lots of good motoring 101, indeed. What freaks me out most about wet riding isn't usually me or the bike but other drivers. Precipitation incites the crazies on my town's roads. I commute in city traffic majority of the time, and when it rains, I tell you, I'm even more invisible to them — perhaps because as ka5… wrote, the cagers are even more surprised to see me crossing the intersection.

What's that MSF mantra? Assume they do see you and are trying to kill you. Something like that here in River City.

Really good points. I get caught in short mountain showers from time to time and it has not been an issue. Just slow down. The oil rising to the top of the road the first 15 minutes is a really important point. The MSF class is the best thing I have done for myself as a rider.

Got into some strong New Mexico winds today. Big dust devil came right at me on the interstate. Slow down or power through it? I decided to maintain my speed. Had to pull out some pieces of tumbleweed when I got home...

I haven't much ride time in the rain. And I remembered some of the points covered in the posts from Hough's book... especially Don's list. I have always thought the painted lane strip was slippery even when dry. A technique I read about and have tried is ... when the visor get covered with rain turning your head from side to side (maybe 20 degrees) gives the wind a sharp angle on the drops on the visor and pushes or clears the drops from ones vision. Works good unless in a heavy rain.
I have Raincoat but need to apply it. Seems like cleaning the visor would take Raincoat off.
Also riding in the rain is a sure way to dirty up your bike.

Robert

I took the Basic Rider 2 motorcycle safety class two weeks ago. The class is a very good class but they did not discuss anything about riding in the rain and I did not ask. Everything that was tought about cornering applies to wet weather just make sure that you slow down BEFORE the corner, SMOOTHLY power thru the corner, and trust that the tires and the bike will get you thru.

Roger L

On, on ramps , especially on interstates, near truck stops, try and keep to the inside line in the rain. Big Rigs that have just filled up with diesel will fling overflow to the outside of the turn, this is also applicable to most on ramps. And as everyone has said Smooooth is the key.

deilenberger wrote:I'm just guessing - either you're a fairly new rider, or one who has little rain experience?

The modern tires (especially the Pilot-Road II and III) have amazing grip in wet weather. But - there are a few things to remember:

1 - 1st flush: The first 20 minutes or so of rain are when all the ground up tire debris that is sitting on the pavement becomes a slurry of slippery stuff. Don't expect a lot of grip until it's rained enough to wash that munge off the pavement.

2 - Center of lanes AVOID: They will be slippery. Avoid them. Even after the first flush. Cars drip oil (less now then they used to - but they still do) - especially when coming to a stop and taking off. The oil works its way into the pavement, and with water on it becomes as slick as snot.. so watch out for the center of a lane, especially when nearing stops of any type.

3 - Relax. Don't tense up: With modern tires - with decent tread on them - a bike can be amazingly stable. SMOOTH is the big trick for wet weather. Make ALL inputs smooth (acceleration, braking, shifting, turning) which helps avoid traction need peaks. I make a game out of it - how smooth CAN I be?

4 - Offramps - take it easy on them: If you have some butthead tailgating you - put on your four-way flasher, they'll usually get the clue and back off. Don't go for max lean angles - it will end up with your sliding out. Go for smooth, avoid the center of the lane, and did I mention smooth?

5 - Any metal or rubber surfaces like manholes, gratings, railroad crossings: Treat them like ice. Avoid them if possible, if not - try to cross them upright (no lean) and very smoothly. Avoid braking or swerving or shifting while on them.

I get into a rain-riding zone, and actually some of my most enjoyable rides have been in all-day rains. Seems odd, but there is something really neat about feeling secure and dry in my Aerostich while it's pouring rain. Slow down a bit, don't press the envelope and you'll be just fine.

Great advice, Don. David Hough couldn't have said it better.

ka5ysy wrote:All good points previously noted.

One thing to remember generally, but especially in the rain is this: Smooth throttle, Smooth clutch, Smooth brakes. The bike will be most happy the smoother you get on the basics. Do not snap on/off the throttle, grab brakes or clutch in an "on-off" switch fashion.

Nailed it. More than anything make all your movements smooth. Oddly enough it's the same things that allow you go go fast when it's dry.

Great wisdom by all. Same goes for snow riding too except for the 'first flush'.

K5ysy mentioned a SLOW - LOOK - PRESS - ROLL technique which I've never heard of before but I suspect it might be the same as I learned with the Institute of Advanced Motorists in the UK before taking my advanced test.

Generally your speed should be dictated by the vanishing point of the bend (where the two sides come together in perspective) and your ability to stop within the distance you can see. In the wet this'll obviously mean going a bit slower.

Get really confident at rolling the bike over into a turn by "counter steering"

Next is the Revs and gearing. I was taught to go one gear lower in the wet than in the dry and to roll on the throttle very gently so the bend is negotiated with a little bit of power to the back wheel. This forces the tread to grip through the water to the road surface rather than just roll over it. I'd been riding for about 5 years before I was taught this technique and it totally transformed not only my riding but also my confidence and thus enjoyment in the wet weather.

It does, just very occasionally, rain in England

Shakey wrote: Next is the Revs and gearing. I was taught to go one gear lower in the wet than in the dry and to roll on the throttle very gently so the bend is negotiated with a little bit of power to the back wheel. This forces the tread to grip through the water to the road surface rather than just roll over it. I'd been riding for about 5 years before I was taught this technique and it totally transformed not only my riding but also my confidence and thus enjoyment in the wet weather.

It does, just very occasionally, rain in England

Interesting note there Shakey. I have always geared up to avoid overpowering the back tire. I grew up on dirt bikes and we always geared down for curves so we had the juice to powerslide the back end to whip backend of the bike through the curve. Like most others here smooth is the key for me so that is why I've always kept the revs as low as possible to keep from squirting the backend out from under me. Sounds like I have a new wet ride experiment ot undertake.