BMW R1200R R1150R/T F800 K1200R R1100R/T R1250R RnineT Message Board

Hi,

Looking for some advice. I bought a used 2010 R about 6 months ago still under warranty from a private seller. It had about 5000 miles and I've put several thousand miles on it since then. It's also had it's first service. I love the bike. I left my Ducati for this BMW and I've been so happy about it.

Anyway, the seller did not have the title because he had a loan from BMW. I paid cash to him. He was to get the title (a long process according to him, he said he was talking to BMW and making the arrangements) and send it to me.

I've contacted him several times but I can't get him to send the title either because of laziness or worse. He's always had some excuse. For the past couple months he's not really even responding to my calls/emails although the contact info seems current still. He seems like an average Joe. You can find him on the internet and stuff. I don't THINK that he is trying to scam me. Getting the bike and negotiating for it was very pleasant and easy. He didn't set off any alarms in my head at the time.

Anyone know how I'd go about getting a replacement title from BMW so that I can bypass the seller? Any other options?

Writing that all down makes me feel pretty dumb for not getting the title at the beginning. Live and learn.

Working for an automotive dealership, I can offer what information I know. If you paid funds directly to the seller you might be sol because he may or may not have directed those funds to the lien holder, in this case BMW financial. You will not get a title from them if they have not had their loan paid off. And what you describe is an awful long time to go without ownership papers. In some cases, lien holders do not supply title but a lien release letter, which is made to the name of the buyer on the loan and taken to motor vehicle dept to produce a new title free of loan encumbrance. Should that be the case he can take you with him to the DMV and get you a new title. But if he has not paid off the loan, you are still riding BMW financial's bike, and if he stopped making payments, they may be looking for it to repossess. Call BMW and find out whether or not a loan still exists on the ride. They may or may not be willing to talk to you since you have no loan with them. Send the seller a demand letter, certified with a 72 hr turnaround request, for proof of payoff and title. Otherwise, use your receipt (please tell me you got one of those) to demand a full refund with threat of legal actions if he responds to the contrary. If that is the result, at least you got to ride for free these last few months.
Good luck!

Willfreely is right. That's the bad news.

The good news is that most BMW owners and former owners are righteous people - so I wouldn't come on too heavy too quickly. You have a right to the lien release. If he cannot or will not provide it then it's time to step-up the heat a bit.

good luck!

Thanks to you both for the advice.

Yes, I do have a receipt. I just put in a call to the seller and left a message and another email. Reading back on the email chain it looks like he told me BMW sent it to the wrong address and it was returned to sender. They were to send it to the right address and he was going to "get it right to me" after that. That was October [cue scary music]...

Hopefully the repo man is not after me. The seller has moved to Boston so no date to the DMV will be possible.

I will follow your advice and give him a couple days to respond and then send out a demand letter with my lawyer. I'll call BMW as well.

Funny, he seemed like a really good guy, cooperative, on time with other stuff, managed the shipping of the bike very well, etc..
Hopefully, there is some good excuse and this will go away. I'll let you know.

P.S. I am sufficiently embarrassed that I let this happen in the first place. At the time it seemed a minor issue... duh.

Just FYI if anyone else ever needs the info: BMW Financial is 800-578-5000 and, while pleasant, understandably cannot discuss the seller's account with a third party. They won't even say if the bike has been paid off or not. Hey, worth a try.

sunny72 wrote:Just FYI if anyone else ever needs the info: BMW Financial is 800-578-5000 and, while pleasant, understandably cannot discuss the seller's account with a third party. They won't even say if the bike has been paid off or not. Hey, worth a try.

With all this credit checking and so on, could your insurance agent find out whether there is a loan on the bike? Just a thought.

How did you get it registered without a title?

If push comes to shove, the Yankee Beemers has several lawyers living in the greater Boston area, one of whom might be willing to help out. Many times a "lawyer letter" is all that is needed to get quick action.

Bruce

Well, my friend Bruce kind of beat me to the punch. Butt!! Since this guy 'moved to Boston', me and Bruce might be convinced to get about 80 or 90 Yankee Beemers to pay this guy a visit. Just supply his address info and we can talk about it

Geez Ain't,

I wasn't going to go nuclear until we tried the lawyer letter.

Still, it's been a while since we exercised the YB Enforcement Wing.

Bruce

I await your orders, Commander

This obviously won't help out the OP, but the lesson here I hope others take from this is Never pay the seller directly for a bike with a lein. Always pay the lien holder, bank, credit union what ever. I can tell you that when ever I've sold a bike with a lein I always go through a dealer as an intermediary. I'll pay them a nominal fee to handle the pay off and any other DMV stuff. Also if I'm getting a new bike I save on the sales tax difference.

I've had and paid off several loans with BMW Financial for cars and a motorcycle and the title arrives within two weeks of the payoff. There's no need to call. They send it.

In the case of my first BMW motorcycle, the dealer mailed the paperwork for the registration to the wrong address, it was lost and with it the original title. It took BMW (but not BMW Financial) a couple of weeks to issue a replacement title so the bike could be registered.

I am all for giving everyone the benefit of the doubt and I understand some people aren't sticklers about paperwork. However, it's long past time for polite phone calls to this guy. I would send him a registered letter demanding the title within ten days. If he can't provide the title within ten days he needs to provide you with documentation of the payoff such as a statement on the BMWFS account which reflects the payoff or a cancelled check and copies of paperwork evidencing that he (not BMW) has sought to obtain a replacement title. It would actually be better if that letter came from an attorney but that would take money out of your pocket.

If he can't provide the paperwork but insists the loan was paid off, you can do a conference call with him and BMW Financial Services. If he is on the phone and authorizes them to discuss the account with you listening in, they will. When my bike was totaled that is what the insurer did to obtain the payoff on the loan and make arrangements to obtain the title.

If he has paid off the bike and the title is lost, he can drive the process of getting a replacement title as he owns the bike free and clear of any and all liens. He will need to get documentation from BMW that is the case but "I'm waiting on BMW" is an excuse that relieves him of all responsibility. In my experience, BMW FS is timely and responsive.

I'd bet money he didn't pay off the note and that is why he doesn't have title.

I too would agree with Sander here on what you are experiencing. To register here, we require title to register/insure. I would take someone up on the offer to send a registered letter from an attorney to get the title. Might have been a nice guy in person, but you *NEED* to title to go any further. Also, if you were pulled over and couldn't convince officer friendly it was YOUR bike, you could be spending some time in jail. Get started TODAY on this and do not let it go any further.

Sander Abernathy wrote:I've had and paid off several loans with BMW Financial for cars and a motorcycle and the title arrives within two weeks of the payoff. There's no need to call. They send it.

In the case of my first BMW motorcycle, the dealer mailed the paperwork for the registration to the wrong address, it was lost and with it the original title. It took BMW (but not BMW Financial) a couple of weeks to issue a replacement title so the bike could be registered.

I am all for giving everyone the benefit of the doubt and I understand some people aren't sticklers about paperwork. However, it's long past time for polite phone calls to this guy. I would send him a registered letter demanding the title within ten days. If he can't provide the title within ten days he needs to provide you with documentation of the payoff such as a statement on the BMWFS account which reflects the payoff or a cancelled check and copies of paperwork evidencing that he (not BMW) has sought to obtain a replacement title. It would actually be better if that letter came from an attorney but that would take money out of your pocket.

If he can't provide the paperwork but insists the loan was paid off, you can do a conference call with him and BMW Financial Services. If he is on the phone and authorizes them to discuss the account with you listening in, they will. When my bike was totaled that is what the insurer did to obtain the payoff on the loan and make arrangements to obtain the title.

If he has paid off the bike and the title is lost, he can drive the process of getting a replacement title as he owns the bike free and clear of any and all liens. He will need to get documentation from BMW that is the case but "I'm waiting on BMW" is an excuse that relieves him of all responsibility. In my experience, BMW FS is timely and responsive.

I'd bet money he didn't pay off the note and that is why he doesn't have title.

Thanks everyone... the first couple responses scared me straight. I put in a call to the seller and he called back. Said he would get it to me in the next several days. Had some pretty reasonable sounding excuses and profuse apologies. Of course, I can't rely on that. I'll keep you posted. Got a ride tomorrow just to tempt fate.

The lawyer is involved...

sunny72 wrote:Thanks everyone... the first couple responses scared me straight. I put in a call to the seller and he called back. Said he would get it to me in the next several days. Had some pretty reasonable sounding excuses and profuse apologies. Of course, I can't rely on that. I'll keep you posted. Got a ride tomorrow just to tempt fate.

The lawyer is involved...

6 months and not title ? That is nothing short of BS. I'd be demanding that he Fed Ex the title overnight. I'm curious as to how you managed to put plates on the bike ? I recently sold my bike to someone in Ca. Once we reached agreement on sale price and shipping charges, I faxed him a copy of my title, and labeled as such. I also sent him my bank account info. He transferred funds in to my account and once confirmed by my bank, I Fed Ex'd him my title overnight. That's the way it should work...each doing their part. I really hope you resolve this without you having to start paying a lawyer to settle this matter.

Hey Sunny, did you the title? If not, I would have an attorney send a certified letter asap.

Hi, thanks again for all the advice.
This week is the test. I got hold of the seller and he explained a process that made sense with many details which I will spare you unless you all want them.

I have to take some serious blame here and I'm sort of ashamed of it but since it may help someone here someday... here's the story. As some of you have asked "how did you get it registered?" Great question, I work a lot and I ride a half day once or twice a week in the canyons. So, when i got the bike I insured it and noted that the registration for the previous owner was current. Then I got assurances about the title arriving and went on with my life. Somehow in my head I forgot that I didn't register the bike... in my head I thought "don't worry about it until the title comes." And the rest is history because the title never came.

So, in summary, I'm riding a bike that doesn't technically belong to me by title, is registered to someone else, and will now likely incur a penalty when I get the title for transfer and registration.

I can't believe I let myself forget but my wife was pregnant and now we have an 8 week old and, well, good vehicle ownership just slipped out the other side of my brain.

I anticipate I have yet to receive my complete punishment for failing to be anal-retentive about this stuff as I should be. Somehow I avoided being pulled over. That would have been a fun stop. "Actually, I don't remember if I registered it... I thought I did. Title? Yeah, I don't have that." [cut to scene where bike is being impounded].

So, lesson, all kinds of things can happen when you buy a bike long distance (I did) that gets shipped to you (it did) and you can't physically pick up a title. Don't buy a bike unless the title is in the seller's hand. Duh.

So, I'm being guaranteed the title by Friday FedEx. I'll let you know.

sunny72 wrote:So, I'm being guaranteed the title by Friday FedEx. I'll let you know.

As I tell my clients all the time : "If it is not in writing it does not exist".

I hope you actually have it in hand as promised. Let us know what happens.

Doug

Kinda simple, makes no difference who or what it is.

Pay and get the title, or never move the bike.
From a dealer it will come, from an individual it may not.
It amazes me how many folks are riding before they pay????

Did you get it? It's officially Saturday.