BMW R1200R R1150R/T F800 K1200R R1100R/T R1250R RnineT Message Board

Today I had a very pleasant long chat with the Northeast BMW Sales Manager at the open house at Dunbar Eurosport, Brockton, MA. (Sorry, his name has escaped me) He was there to present Tom Fournier a plaque congratulating Dunbar's for 55 years in business.

He told me a couple of interesting things. 1) When BMW first introduced lowered chassis bikes a few years back, they were amazed at the popularity. Lowered chassis bikes now make up 40% of all new bike sales. 2) There are no plans to change the R1200 R in the immediate future. BMW is committed to the "naked bike concept" and this one is considered by BMW as a hit.

Wooo Whoo!

Bruce

This is good news. Though I do not plan buying another vehicle until they are electric, it is still good news.

AncientMariner wrote: 1) When BMW first introduced lowered chassis bikes a few years back, they were amazed at the popularity. Lowered chassis bikes now make up 40% of all new bike sales.
2) There are no plans to change the R1200 R in the immediate future. BMW is committed to the "naked bike concept" and this one is considered by BMW as a hit.

Wooo Whoo!

Bruce

I have heard often that the R1200R is about to be canceled. I'm glad they watch their sales stats. I have little experience to evaluate the R's value; however from parking lots to winding roads to freeway ... what's not to like. Seven thousand miles and a year is not much but d@mn ... the R is a great bike.

Robert

Hey Ashveratu... looks like that rider is looking at those two-wheelers thinking "this is gonna hurt."

Robert- I have not heard that the R1200R will be cancelled but that it might be questionable whether they continue to sell it in North America. I talked to my BMW dealer over here and for every R1200R they sell five times as many GS(A)s. Another BMW dealer in Munich (homeland of the BMW) told me the same. The sale figures are much below the GS(A)s but very steady- in a sense that they always sell the same number of R1200Rs each year. I guess over time the Ewan McGregor/ Charley Borman "The Long Way Around" illusion will fade and people will perhaps realise that they might not go that much off-road as they liked and this might re-vive the sales of the R1220Rs.
Stef.

Stef... you're right. The idea of "canceled" is to strong. The slant I got was .. not sold in America. But could a customer buy an R in the states if not sold here? The actual sells of Rs in the states I don't know but there is some number and that the R will continue is very good news for me. The one I own is likely the last bike I'll own...or not.
I know I'm preachin' to the choir but ... it's a great bike.
I recently saw a special on cable about BMW motorcycles and if I had not known about the R1200R ... I got a 20 second look at a R. The special completely ignored the R1200R. And I very much enjoyed "Long Way Down" and "Long Way Round" except their desire to get close to large preditory animals.

A road close by for me is LA 361 and runs from Evergreen LA. to LeBeau LA. and has 20 miles of winding pavement. Far from "Long Way Round or Down" but fun.

Robert

I think it's all speculation at this point - and we won't know what's on the lineup until the 2011 model lineup is announced.

Would BMW kill their iconic bike (look at a 1928 BMW to see the family heritage)? I don't think so, but it wouldn't surprise me to see it change a bit for 2011, I can't imagine them keeping a production line open to produce the non-overhead cam engine for just one model.. so I'd expect the 2011 models to get the new engine. With that - it's about due for a "freshening up" (as it's known in the BMW world.. a minor restyling to make it look "NEW!" and get it into the magazine review stream again..) I do have mixed feelings about BMW putting the bike out for more attention.. right now.. as was said in another post, it's "BMW's best kept secret.." making it somewhat exclusive, and all of us smarter for owning one..

deilenberger- the dohc motor is already in the R1200RT and the new GSs and yes it will be introduced in the R1200R beginning at the end of this eyar or beginning of next year dependend on when BMW has cleared their storage of R1200Rs with the old motor. This has been confirmed by my cousin who works for BMW Spain.
Whether they make any other big changes is speculation IMHO.
Who cares- I have got the bike I want
Stef.

Stef. wrote:deilenberger- the dohc motor is already in the R1200RT and the new GSs and yes it will be introduced in the R1200R beginning at the end of this eyar or beginning of next year dependend on when BMW has cleared their storage of R1200Rs with the old motor. This has been confirmed by my cousin who works for BMW Spain.
Whether they make any other big changes is speculation IMHO.
Who cares- I have got the bike I want
Stef.

It will be September of this year.. usually "new model year" for the US. And I think that's what I said..

BTW - I agree - I see no compelling need to get a different bike. If mine blew up tomorrow, I'd be at the dealer looking for an identical replacement.

The only problem is that this bike will not come to the US. At least that what I heard from my dealer.
Peter

Stef. wrote:the dohc motor ... will be introduced in the R1200R ... when BMW has cleared their storage of R1200Rs with the old motor. Stef.

Am I missing something? The DOHC motor specs on the Australian website say same torque and +1 hp at much the same revs ... if so I fail to see what you'd gain except perhaps a lighter wallet at major service time ... ?

Plus (a personal opinion) the SOHC hexhead motor is a thing of elegance (unlike the oilhead!!) - and the DOHC head is .. well ... fugly.

I think what you're missing is:

1 - Marketing appeal - DOHC sounds SO sexy, the current hexhead isn't actually a SOHC since the cam is down in the head and activates the rockers via pushrods. Plus all the magazines now have to retest the BMW bikes giving them more exposure. And that helps sell bikes.

2 - Future development - as is pretty obvious with the HP2 - the new design will allow for higher max RPM and accordingly greater HP.. that sells bikes.

3 - Longer service intervals - a real goal on the part of manufacturers where owners pile on miles and then bitch about service costs. With a similar design on BMW's car engines (S54 M engine) - the valve adjustment interval is 30k miles. Longer service intervals and lower service costs helps sell bikes.

Basically comes down to - it's something that will help BMW to sell more bikes, and that is their real goal. Think like someone in marketing and it all makes a lot of sense.

deilenberger wrote:the current hexhead isn't actually a SOHC since the cam is down in the head and activates the rockers via pushrods.

Oh dear. Actually, I do know that - silly lapse since this is my 4th boxer twin.

Personally, I can't see much marketing edge in a DOHC flat twin when Der Korp is pursuing SBK and outright power / speed with the 4 cylinder range, but I take your point.

I wonder who will buy these super-boxers ... I find the hexhead to be a perfect balance of tractability and flexibility - in a way my airheads never were (even the renowned short-stroke R65LS). The (1130) oilhead was a great tractor too, but lacked the flexibility of the (1170) hexhead. I can ride this bike a bit like a multi in that if I stuff up on entry (waaay too often!), I can still power out of a corner ... yet it will still do something like the boxer 'lope' I love, out in open sweeper country in 6th. For me, that 'lope' is the great heritage and character of the boxer line ... kinda swells the soul as you just roll along and soak in the whole sensation of the bike, along with the visceral connection to landscape ...

Mebbe I should ride the DOHC and see - feedback from mates is that it doesn't have the low end tractability of oil- or hex-head, and lacks that 'lope' ... one actually said the DOHC R1200RT steered him towards the K1300GT - if it's all about power, why not have more still ... not that I need or want another bike: this one is perfect for me, especially as I have it set up.

Caroanbill wrote:
Mebbe I should ride the DOHC and see - feedback from mates is that it doesn't have the low end tractability of oil- or hex-head, and lacks that 'lope' ... one actually said the DOHC R1200RT steered him towards the K1300GT - if it's all about power, why not have more still ... not that I need or want another bike: this one is perfect for me, especially as I have it set up.

Well said - if its about power, then get a Ducati - their twins (even in the Multistrada now) hit 150hp +, the BMW Camhead DOHC for 2010 is a few orders of magnitude lower in output (110 hp). Its the funky flavor (as you described) of the BMW boxer and all its history that does it for me.

deilenbergr- apologies- I misread your post and thought you were mentioning that the dohc is only in one model so far. Mea culpa.

Something that I did not like with the dohc on the new GS which I test rode the other day is: the motor is much (!) louder than the 2009 GS model. Apparently customers asked for a louder (!) motor. I am not sure whether this would be the same case with the R1200R once they include it, but for me this louder motor is a pure nuisance. For the first time I sincerely thought that ear plugs make sense...I also didn't think that it was soo much more powerful than the old motor. Actually- I did not feel the slightest difference, but than I have to admit I test rode it in a group and that never lets you try out the bike to its potential.
Anyhow, I am glad I did not wait for the new model to come out but rather spend this summer riding my bike.
Stef.

Stef. wrote:Something that I did not like with the dohc on the new GS which I test rode the other day is: the motor is much (!) louder than the 2009 GS model. Apparently customers asked for a louder (!) motor.

Is the motor louder, or the muffler? The muffler is valved, now.

peckhammer wrote:

Stef. wrote:Something that I did not like with the dohc on the new GS which I test rode the other day is: the motor is much (!) louder than the 2009 GS model. Apparently customers asked for a louder (!) motor.

Is the motor louder, or the muffler? The muffler is valved, now.

Probably the muffler. Didn't the GS have more boing in the exhaust even with the regular hexhead engine compared to the Roadster?

The power output in the GS and RT with the new engine may be a matter of how it is tuned in these models. The dohc power plant is good for close to 140hp in the HP2 Sport.

I can't say what is louder just that it is louder than the GS 2009 model.
Stef.

hjsbmw wrote: The power output in the GS and RT with the new engine may be a matter of how it is tuned in these models. The dohc power plant is good for close to 140hp in the HP2 Sport.

Yebbut the HP2 Sport's torque is the same (115nm @ 6K) even if it's power is up (96Kw @ 8,750 vs 80 @ 7,500) but even that's +20% power for +17% rpm ... and whywoodenya just get the S100RR??

In the R1200RT the OHC motor makes +1% power @ +3% rpm - but does make +4% torque at the same rpm ... (yeahyeah, I know rpm to pwer isn't linear - I was merely representing the tractability / flexibility trade-off) ... so still not sure it's enough to salivate over, but at least extra torque is real-world-usable. I'd love to see some power and troque curves - my quick search didn't turn up any.

I believe I mentioned in another thread - I have it on VERY good authority that the 2011 lineup will include the R1200R. VERY GOOD AUTHORITY. I would (and this is a bit of speculation on my part with a tiny bit of confirmation) also expect the new OHC engine in it since it would make no sense for BMW to keep an engine production line open for only one model when all the other boxers have moved to the OHC. I don't expect you'll see that in print/person until the actual model year announcement, since BMW still has some '10 models left to sell (and they know that announcement of a new engine always makes people hesitate to buy perfectly excellent "this year" bikes.)

deilenberger wrote:I believe I mentioned in another thread - I have it on VERY good authority that the 2011 lineup will include the R1200R. VERY GOOD AUTHORITY.

Don, does your info apply to US lineup? I have strong reason to wait 6 months to buy another bike, but I do hope it will be a 2011 R1200R.