BMW R1200R R1150R/T F800 K1200R R1100R/T R1250R RnineT Message Board

Hello all:

So, putting the bike to bed for winter yesterday, added fuel conditioner and went to fire up the bike. Push the starter button and nothing happens. Flicked the kill switch back and forth, tried again, nothing. The fuel pump is powering up/cycling, the lights come on, everything seems fine, but the switch isn't getting the starter to do its thing. There is no clicking and the battery was on the battery tender, so I don't think it's a battery issue. Pretty sure it isn't a side stand kill switch issue as the bike would still turn over if the wiring on that was shorting out (I think). Note, on my last trip I noticed a couple of times that the button wouldn't work on the first try when I'd try to start her. I thought it just might be the contact, so hit the button/switch with a little contact cleaner when I got back. That seemed to fix it, but now I'm not so sure. Obviously something was getting ready to go. The bike has 30,000 miles on it. Is the start button bad? Is this a button/starter relay issue? Could this be a starter issue? I've never had to troubleshoot something like this and I'm not electrically well versed. Any thoughts on this?

Thanks

FN

Is it in neutral?

Another possibility, if you haven't looked into it, is a broken wire in the wire bundles under the steering head, precipitated by tight nylon ties. Electrical gremlins has been a common ocurrence on those bikes still using nylon ties.

Yes, it's in neutral . . . and on the center stand.

Boxermania, I loosened those and put the mess into a nylon loom to protect them, but I'll check anyway, they were still pretty tight . . . Geez BMW Eng's, wire's cheap, a few extra inches would have been nice.

I'm having very similar sounding issues. '04 R1150R. Less than 6K miles. Has been running flawlessly since I bought it last winter. The bike appears to be in pristine condition. I'm the 3d owner.

Over this past weekend, on Saturday, bike started fine in my garage from cold, but after running around town for half hour or so in mid 80sF sunny weather I stopped and turned off the bike and put it on side stand for an hour or so, returned, went to start it, and starter would not crank. Nothing. Key in on position. Kill switch centered to run position. All dash lights, headlight, horn, signals, brake ABS noises, work, but absolutely nothing happens when I hit the starter button. I futzed with the side stand and gear shift (thinking it was a side stand switch or not-in-neutral thing--but if clutch is pulled in it could still start, and bike also can start with side stand down), turned the key off and on, and nothing happened. Did the same steps and then it started. Same scenario insofar as easy cold start, stop for break, then difficulty on re-starting occurred last evening.

At first I thought it was related to a part that was failing/deforming when hot and when it cooled down it would return to original position and the bike would start. But that hypothesis went out the window when tonight after work (bike in cool garage all day today) the bike would not start again. Same scenario as after the warm bike starts noted above.

I installed a new Odyssey battery over the winter, thus the battery is in good shape. The headlight is burning brightly. Just upon pushing the starter button, absolutely nothing happens. No clicking, no cranking. Nothing.

Given all the posts on the wiring harness(es) issue, I'm guessing there's a frayed or parted wire, or loosened wire into a connector, somewhere, likely in the handlebar region. When I turn the handlebar back and forth and feel the tension on the wire cluster that leads to the starter button, there is significant tension.

Any suggestions on where to start on this one? The above posts on this thread did not appear to detail any resolution. Many thanks.

A good place to start is at the red arrows in the picture below (credit: cyclerob). Since you are already having problems, you will likely need to slice open the sheath surrounding the bundle of wires (throttle side) and very closely inspect the wires. The copper inside may be severed even with the insulation still intact. If you find your problem wire, it's a straight forward job of splicing it back together.

Iowabeakster, many thanks.

My buddy and I (actually, he did most the work, I just held the shop light) fixed the severed wire over lunch today. First he isolated the wire in question by pressuring the wire bundle/sheath leading to the starter switch (the left branch in your diagram) and we saw that the starter actuated intermittently while playing with the wire bundle. Thus, we knew we were onto the problem. He cut the tie-wrap to this left branch as you indicated. Then he slit the vinyl sheath covering the wire in question and one of the wires, apparently leading to/from the starter switch, was now completely parted. He spliced-in a new section of wire and soldered it into place, taped it, then we taped over the existing harness.

Last, I cut the other tie-wrap above the right side of the horn (looking from the front of the bike to the rear) as you indicated, to give that bunch of wires some liebensraum.

Questions:

1. To re-weatherize the repaired wire bundle, what does everyone recommend for replacement sheathing? The below looked interesting to me as it can be applied to an existing section of wire, it's hardier than the stock vinyl sheathing (which apparently allowed the wear in question to occur in the first place), since it's clear it may allow me to see if there's a problem wire inside, since it has a side seam it will allow for easy re-access. Downside is it's not fully weatherproof, given the side seam.

http://order.waytekwire.com/products2/M ... 0Coverings

Or is this the preferred re-bundling material:

http://www.glasgowmfg.com/pages/magicwrap.html

2. I wonder if there are other wire harness issues on this bike in waiting, including but not limited to the right-side bunch of wires/harness, under the fuel tank, etc.? What is the collective wisdom on this? I'd prefer to make a preemptive repair, versus having to diagnose and fix another failure while out on the road. Hopefully, cutting the right side's tie-wrap did the trick, but I wonder if some damage/wear/abrasion has already occurred there and/or elsewhere?

3. Otherwise, my tires are good, I preemptively replaced the battery, I preemptively replaced the oil and filter, tranny, and FD fluids. Are there any other "obvious" preemptive strike fixes of known R1150R issues that this group has encountered and resolved that I should have on my radar screen now?

Thanks again. And, great diagram, cyclerob! My buddy, who is a multi BMW and Harley owner, and is more used to looking at the BMWMOA and http://www.k12rs.com (I believe) sites, was impressed with your diagnosis and solutions re cutting the tie-wraps. Trust when you, Iowabeakster, say to cut these tie-wraps, you mean to keep them untethered and not to re-tie less tightly?

tuglaw,

...glad you found your problem.

Here are my best attempts at answers.

1. I've never acutally had a wiring issue with my bike. (I cut those zip-ties when the bike was nearly new) So, others might be able to tell you what they used to repair the outer sheath. From other wiring experiences... I absolutely hate the first choice you give. I call it "split-loom". Man, I hate split-loom. Personally, I would choose some kind of waterproof tape. I don't have any experience with the particular product "magic wrap", so I can't give any reccommedation on it. But, I would use something similar. Unwrapping tape isn't too hard to do if you need to access the wires again.

2. Yes... many, many people have had broken wires. Almost all of the broken wires were precisely where those red arrows are in the picture above. Turn signals, kills switch, starter button, heated hand grips, brake light ...

What happened to the starter wire, could certainly have happened to the other wires. Hopefully, the other wires are intact...and now...will cause you no problems. It is not really possible for me to predict, as there may be some partially damgaed wires. I would play/inspect with the wires in those areas before sealing up the the sheath. Then you should have some reasonable confidence in them.


Sometimes, the wire for the heated grip (inside the handlebar!) will fall off the grip (this is a throttle side problem). Fully opening and closing the throttle, and the factory not providing enough slack are what cause this to happen. It can be prevented by assuring enough slack is available for full throttle movement. Pull off the throttle side bar end, and look inside the handle bar to see the wire.

A couple of people have had the big harness, underneath the tank, rub and eventually make contact with the tank and necessitate a replacement of the whole harness ($$$). This occurence is Very Rare. Make sure that the harnesses have room and do not rub on the underside tank. An inspection, should give you good confidence that this is not an issue for your bike.

3. Other preventative measures...

A. Replace the stock plastic fuel disconnects. I really reccommmend this! Way too many people have suffered fuel leaks due to those stupid plastic pieces.

These are nice! They are exactly the same thing as the stock plastic disconnects...but metal.

http://www.beemerboneyard.com/cpcqkdiscon.html

When I replaced the disconnects, I replaced all of the hose and hose clamps (8) at the same time. The kit above does not include enough clamps (or any hose) to do that. You must use proper hose and clamps for high pressure fuel injection systems. The worm gear clamps will not do!

You will find an enormous amount of info about this if you type "quick disconnects" into the search box at the top. Then dig through those hundreds of threads to find out more than you want to know.

B. I also reccommend...DO NOT NEGLECT THE CLUTCH FLUID! If the fluid is nasty, I would replace the slave. Then, I would start changing the clutch fluid annually. This is just me. I ain't gonna suffer a blown slave out on the road. My clutch fluid has always been Beautiful!

...And it always will be.


4. I have just let the wiring harnesses hang, since cutting the zip-ties. I am very comfortable with the way they hang. Others have restrained them much less tightly or with things like velcro straps. The most important thing is cut the stock ties. They were way too tight...and obviously damaging to the wiring.

I hope that got all the questions.

Yes. Thanks again. Very helpful. Above and beyond. Glad my bike is working again and I can go riding tomorrow night and this weekend!

When I wire something on my bike, I use marine type heat shrink tubing to weather proof it. Something like this:

http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/st ... sNum=10612

However, you have to put it on BEFORE you connect the wires and solder them. Then you use a heat gun to shrink the tubing so that it seals the connections. It has worked well for me.

Starting just fine now, but apparently in the process of futzing with (and freeing by snipping the offending zip ties) the front wire harnesses to diagnose the starter wire which was parted (which we fixed), now the rear brake light stays lit, the servo won't run on applying brake lever or pedal. From reading other posts, sounds like this is another wire gone bad. Keep in mind, bike only has 5,800 miles. Is an '04 R1150R. I've been looking at all the wires running from the right handlebar, but none appear parted or worn (after opening sheaths). Any suggestions on isolating which wire is the problem wire? Does anyone know from a wiring diagram which wire is the one I need to be looking for/focusing on? Thanks.

So, the ABS warning light continues to flash at the fast rate, correct?

The general warning light (right next to the ABS wrning light) is it on or off?


If there is a broken wire in the loom (where the starter button wire broke), it could be either of two possible wires.

Not a great diagram, but it looks like green w/ black stripes

or

gray (???)






Another oddball thought is that maybe the tail/brake bulb might have a burned out filament.

Thanks again, Iowabeakster. I spent time last evening working on isolating the wire causing the brake servo and constant-on rear brake light issue, and it appears (from futzing with various candidate wires with the ignition turned on and also with the bike running) to have been a blueish-gray wire, part of a separate two-wire cluster, not within the same sheath as the starter wire we fixed the other night. I removed what appears to have been the crimped section, spliced and soldered in another section of better gauge wire. Went for a test drive and all seems OK now. I bought some rubberized waterproof wide and thick gauge 3M electrical tape to reseal/re-sheath the various wires and I'll likely work on properly sealing everything up again after work tonight. I'll update here if there's a re-occurrence, but I'm guardedly optimistic I got it fixed. And, no, it was not a filament in the rear brake/running light. I pulled it and it checked out fine. Thanks again for your kind and quick input.

blueish-gray wire, part of a separate two-wire cluster, not within the same sheath as the starter wire we fixed the other night. I removed what appears to have been the crimped section, spliced and soldered in another section of better gauge wire. Went for a test drive and all seems OK now.

Front brake switch for ABS is separate "bundle" of two wires. The ABS brake switches are "normally closed" at rest, which enables the iABS controller to check brake switch status via continuity test. Broken wire will cause fault, stop iABS, and illuminate the brake lamp.

Sounds like you got it.

Shame on BMW Motorrad for poor wiring, excessive zip ties, and inadequate post-manufacturing quality control.

Thanks for chiming in, sweatmark. I hope I don't have any more wire harness / zip tie related failures, but at least it's nice to know I did get the right wire. Even a blind pig finds an acorn once in a while.

tuglaw,

I'm glad if I was of help.

Sweatmark said it well...

Shame on BMW Motorrad