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Attention NYC motorcyclists!
Posted: Sat Dec 13, 2008 4:13 am
by sjbmw
The New York City Council is about to give final approval to a bill that the American Motorcyclist Association (AMA) says discriminates against motorcyclists and imposes severe, out-of-line penalties.
The measure, up for full City Council approval on Thursday, Dec. 18, would make it illegal for any motorcycle to be on city streets unless it has an exhaust system with a stamp that states it is approved by the federal Environmental Protection Agency. Essentially that means the bike must have a stock exhaust system.
Motorcyclists caught without an EPA-stamped exhaust system would face fines of up to $1,000 for a first offense and temporary forfeiture of the motorcycle until the fine is paid. A second offense would result in a fine of up to $2,500 and permanent forfeiture of the motorcycle.
City officials apparently believe that requiring motorcyclists to have EPA-approved exhaust systems is easier to enforce than trying to prove a motorcycle exceeds the city's vaguely defined 80-decibel sound limit.
http://capwiz.com/amacycle/issues/alert ... ow_alert=1
Re: Attention NYC motorcyclists!
Posted: Sat Dec 13, 2008 4:51 pm
by challey
Interesting and raises lots of issues, especially since the EPA regulates emissions, not sound pressure levels.
If the measure becomes law it would effectively ban many older bikes since the EPA didn't even start regulating motorcycles emissions until 1978. And I'm not sure that there was such a thing as an EPA stamp for exhaust systems until recently. After reading the linked article, I went and checked the stock, OEM La Francona cans for my '78 Ducati Darmah - no EPA marks.
How is the NYPD going to actually do the checking? If the muffler is hidden by bodywork, how will they be able to see anything? In the case of our Roadsters, the can is often hidden by the left side case. Will the new law empower the police to compel the bike owner to remove any bodywork or a case/saddlebag for the inspection?
It's difficult to see how a such a poorly thought-out measure can survive a court challenge but it does have the power to make a lot of rider's lives miserable until it's stricken down.
Charlie
Re: Attention NYC motorcyclists!
Posted: Sat Dec 13, 2008 5:43 pm
by R4R&R
I think most aftermarket motorcycle mufflers are marked "For off-road use only" in an easy to spot area. That would be one way to tell.
Re: Attention NYC motorcyclists!
Posted: Sat Dec 13, 2008 6:20 pm
by frbank6
I hate to climb on my soapbox, but when are people going to revolt against this kind of crap? Personal property rights are the foundation of liberty.
Re: Attention NYC motorcyclists!
Posted: Sun Dec 14, 2008 5:33 am
by ASQTec
frbank6 wrote:.... but when are people going to revolt against this kind of crap? ....
Revolt against what? The fact that people are becoming annoyed with the growing number of obnoxiously loud motorcycles on the road? After all, that IS what this is about. NYC today, your city tomorrow.
Who didn't see this coming?
Re: Attention NYC motorcyclists!
Posted: Sun Dec 14, 2008 8:31 am
by frbank6
Revolt against opressive state and federal rules that are supposedly 'for your own good'. Now, they say they are planning to tax dairymen for their cattles' belches and farts. I am not making this up. Vote out the bastards on the city council who think this is good government. And it's not coming to my state.
Re: Attention NYC motorcyclists!
Posted: Sun Dec 14, 2008 9:32 am
by NoRRmad
Well, it's different here. When one inconsiderate throttle-jam at 2:00 AM to make a light on Eighth Avenue can wake up a thousand people, laws like that make politicians popular.
Re: Attention NYC motorcyclists!
Posted: Sun Dec 14, 2008 11:37 am
by owldaddy
Instead of making new laws, why can't they just enforce the laws already on the books? Those illegal exhausts are obviously breaking the law, if they cause pain, as many of them do they are illegal.
Don
Re: Attention NYC motorcyclists!
Posted: Sun Dec 14, 2008 12:59 pm
by boxermania
Hmmmm, another potential bill drafted by a group with:
A) Absolutely no subject matter expertise
A) No prior research and evaluation of the issues at hand
C) To appease those that yell the loudest, friends or contributors
D) To cement their position in Government
Anyone that has been in NYC knows that on a given day, traffic noise and the horns, create way more noise than a bike’s exhaust.....that is, if we discount the aftermarket "Big Guns" for the big twins.....
The world is going to Hexx in a hand basket and we worry sick about the kids dragging a little mud into the house......that way of thinking is going to be the demise of the USA.
Re: Attention NYC motorcyclists!
Posted: Sun Dec 14, 2008 9:25 pm
by NoRRmad
Hey, good point! Let's make it illegal to declare war without the approval of Congress!
(Just kidding.)
After-market "big gun" exhausts are pretty popular here. (Ya know: "loud pipes impress chicks.")
But don't worry. The AMA is on the case. They'll yell loud and contribute to opponents of the bill and it won't go anywhere. Just like the decibel-based noise laws here that can't be enforced, because they require a decibel meter in every patrol car.
Re: Attention NYC motorcyclists!
Posted: Sun Dec 14, 2008 9:50 pm
by sjbmw
The AMA will point out that this new law has no provision to inspect automobiles for "after market" exhausts, which are just as plentiful as bikes with pipes.
Re: Attention NYC motorcyclists!
Posted: Sun Dec 14, 2008 10:04 pm
by owldaddy
In California the cops used to carry a wooden dowel in the car with them, if they can stick that piece of wood all the way through muffler, they knew that the muffler had been modified, ticket time. However they seem to be lax in the enforcement department these days, loud pipes are every where. Perhaps they should go back to what worked, might help the state get back on it's feet, and a piece of wood is cheap and doesn't take extra training to operate.
Don
Re: Attention NYC motorcyclists!
Posted: Mon Dec 15, 2008 12:01 am
by boxermania
Wooden dowels = splinters........
Re: Attention NYC motorcyclists!
Posted: Mon Jan 05, 2009 11:53 pm
by scottybooj
Here is a link to the proposed law that will go in effect 90 days after it was passed.
http://webdocs.nyccouncil.info/textfile ... 6-2006.htm
Here is a copy of the letter I sent to the Speaker of the Council, Christine Quinn.
Dear Speaker,
Concerning Proposed Int. No. 416-A which pertains to 'straight pipes' on motorcycles, I noticed a few areas in which the city council has possibly created a law that will be quite difficult to enforce properly, leading to a drain on the system due to improper fines/penalties.
1)Many bikes, prior to 1982, were produced with straight pipes as OEM equipment. How will the violations officer discern the age of the vehicle?
(your average traffic officer in NYC is NOT versed in the ways of motorcycle and the city can't be expected to educate them properly. Plus, not all mfr tags are easy to find) Also, that EPA stamp does not appear...will that cause more confusion to the officer?
2)Modern motorcycles have hidden or concealed mufflers under bodywork. How will the officers ascertain the legality of the exhaust without the removal of these panels?
3) Many modern motorcycles run a straight pipe after it leaves a muffler can/catalytic converter, which is often out of sight. How will the officer ascertain this and make the correct decision?
(might of stretched the validity of this one) 
4) Are you aware that some manufacturers of motorcycles use exhaust systems from companies that are EPA compliant, but are NOT required to stamp this on their systems? (builders that make less than 300 units) This would lead to tickets being issued on LEGAL vehicles that ARE compliant with the law. This would again cause confusion on the part of the issuing officer and cause innocent riders to have to go through 'the system' to retrieve their bikes, exhausts, and to clear their accounts of any fines.
5) Singling out motorcycles and not all motor vehicles is discriminatory. You would think that a city like NY would want to encourage more of it's residents and transients to use motorcycles on it's streets to lessen congestion.
6) There is mention of motorcycles having three or less wheels with contact to the road. Are you aware of new cycles being produced with four wheels? These are perported to be even safer than current three wheel models and are expected to meet US DOT requirements very soon. This law would make legal vehicles illegal in NYC. Why not simply state that approved motorycles of the US DOT are approved for use in NYC?
Please consider these points and reconsider the law before it is permanent.
Yours truly,
Dr. Scott Brunengraber
Re: Attention NYC motorcyclists!
Posted: Tue Jan 06, 2009 6:56 pm
by Biff's R
Nice work Scott.
I would also argue that fire trucks and ambulances are too loud, and should shut off their sirens late at night so people can sleep better. Let's also eliminate back up alarms on trucks and construction equipment.
Re: Attention NYC motorcyclists!
Posted: Tue Jan 06, 2009 7:51 pm
by Ves
I hate frikin laws and I hate people with really loud pipes. Why can't we just moderate our selves... clearly some people can't...
Re: Attention NYC motorcyclists!
Posted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 2:49 pm
by MattPie
Ves wrote:I hate frikin laws and I hate people with really loud pipes. Why can't we just moderate our selves... clearly some people can't...
And that, sadly, is why libertarianism will never work.
Re: Attention NYC motorcyclists!
Posted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 2:56 pm
by sjbmw
MattPie wrote:Ves wrote:I hate frikin laws and I hate people with really loud pipes. Why can't we just moderate our selves... clearly some people can't...
And that, sadly, is why libertarianism will never work.
Loud pipes invade the property rights of others. So that is not incongruous to libertarian philosophy.
The issue is separating out motorcycles, for special laws, when automobiles have loud exhausts/sound systems also, and they are not even written into the law.
Re: Attention NYC motorcyclists!
Posted: Thu Jan 08, 2009 7:35 pm
by gunga din
I can’t help thinking auditory exhibitionism, or aural assertive behaviour is a cultural phenomena. Of course we all deserve to be heard, but I question the need to shout unnecessarily.
In India the unnecessary use of the horn is the bane of street life. In the West young guns with garbage can car exhausts and "old farts" riding Harley Davidson motorcycles contribute most to gratuitous vehicle noise pollution. One can only assume they suffer from an attention deficit disorder.
Most motorcyclists wear helmets, and many wear ear plugs as well, so the level of the exhaust noise is reduced for the rider, however this is not the case for the other motorists, pedestrians, or residents who are subjected to the full acoustic assault of an unsilenced motorcycle.
Don’t misunderstand me, I am not in favour of curtailing one’s freedom of expression, but I simply can’t see any value in expressing oneself through a loud exhaust pipe.
A quote from Ronald Knox sums up, what I assume will be, my unpopular take on this subject:
“A loud noise at one end and no responsibility at the other.”
Re: Attention NYC motorcyclists!
Posted: Sat Jan 10, 2009 2:59 am
by TicTac50
Just out of curiosity?
How many of you guys have driven behind bunch of Harley/or other bikes with loud pipes for more than 5 minutes?
How many of you guys where sleeping at the campground just to be woken up at 2:30am by the loud pipes?
How many of you guys got spooked by a loud pipes, while driving in the car?
When people cross the line of decency, morals and inconvenience others, it is the Government's job to protect people.
That is why the signs like
"No shoes No service" are created.
That is why
"Casual Dining", while cruising at sea on the ship, does not mean shorts, sandals and ripped T-Shirt.
I am against any rules or regulations, but, when someone begins to disrespect others or effect other people's life,
I think that new Law needs to be written and put in effect.
"Loud pipes save lives" Probably Yes/Maybe.
A well behaved and properly trained and educated rider/driver, that has respect for others, will save lives too.