BMW R1200R R1150R/T F800 K1200R R1100R/T R1250R RnineT Message Board

I have had my 1200R for two years, have put on 18000 miles and am very happy with the bike - in fact I can not even begin to think up a reason to change it. I have the ABS version and a few other extras including, originally, the larger BMW Standard screen but now use a 20 inch Cee Bailey, with the option to change between the two as to do so only requires the removal of four screws. Other extras include mirror extensions, front mudguard extension and rear hugger. I have also recently had the 1200GS hand guards fitted.

Basically I think that the bike is brilliant.

Now the question - on my previous bikes I tended not to use the clutch when changing up, for some reason on the 1200R I never got into this habit. I wonder if there is any one out there that regularly uses "clutchless up changing" on a 1200R and if so is it beneficial to the ride and/or does it have an adverse effect on the gearbox?

I often, not always, change gears (both up and down) with out the clutch. I personally have never had an issue with a transmission on a motorcycle, car or truck caused by not using the clutch.

I tend to feather the clutch on 3-4, 4-5, 5-6 shifts.. meaning I pull it in just to the point where I feel some resistance, then a bit more and power off the engine a bit.. just enough to take the engine torque off the transmission.

Doing it this way the transmission shifts with a "snick" that is quite satisfying.

I used to shift without using the clutch all the time and can't say that I ever had a problem. As an engineer I can tell you, though, that using the clutch to disengage the transmission from the engine is somewhat analogous to having a shock absorber to protect the gears. Depending on technique, the need for the clutch certainly can be obviated, but for all practical purposes the use of the clutch is always going to be easy on the equipment. Put another way, using the clutch is more conservative.

Bill

I don't want to sound like an old fart here but why in the world would you NOT want to use the clutch?
I'll assume that BMW and every other manufacturer of manual gearboxes has put one on there for a reason and although it may be possible to change gears without it - once again - Why Would You?

It's a bit like leaning your bike over onto the cylinder head rather than using the side stand. Yes it works, and if you are careful it won't damage the bike, but it ain't good for it. What's more, I'm certain that when you go to make a warranty claim because you gearbox is a little sad after only 50,000 kms, you won't be admitting to clutchless shifting.

Don't do it. These are sensitive beasts that deserve to be treated with respect and a gentle hand. Sure, give it a bit of forceful treatment occasionally but don't be nasty about it.

Mark wrote:I don't want to sound like an old fart here but why in the world would you NOT want to use the clutch?

Clutchless upshifts when done properly is a beautiful thing. It causes less wear on the tranny than a clutched one, obviously causes no damage to the clutch, and is smooth as buttah when executed correctly. Especially on a tranny like the one in the BMW; other than the technique mentioned above of simultaneously fanning the clutch while upshifting, it is the only way to make the upshift on the BMW smooth as silk. When done correctly, it is sooo smooth and effortless, it feels(as Sport Rider magazine so well described it) electric.

Humor me here, how does one properly shift without the clutch?

WildBlue wrote:Humor me here, how does one properly shift without the clutch?

1. Slighty load the shifter by putting your toe up against the shifter

2. Close the throttle just a smidgen

3. The shifter will snick up into next gear.

4. Return the throttle to the original position

When done properly, you will feel no resistance whatsoever. It will feel more like the transmission is effortlessly pulling the shifter up on it's own.

It may be harder to master on a BMW than a buttery slick tranny like the one the CBR600RR. However it is more rewarding on the BMW as it totally smoothes out the up-shifts to snick snick snick.

I've not tried it downshifting - but upshifting can result in poo as smooth as an automatic transmission. RPMS, road speed, throttle off/throttle on, and timing of the upshift have an ideal range. I know when I've got it right. When It get it wrong two things happen:

1. I can't shift up (if I try and shift at too low an RPM)
2. There is a very slight hesitation as the engine speed matches the road speed in the new gear (if I let the revs climb too high and don't roll off the throttle just before the upshift).

Oilhead wrote:[Clutchless upshifting] causes less wear on the tranny than a clutched one, obviously causes no damage to the clutch...

Not meaning to be argumentative, but how can clutchless upshifting cause less wear on the tranny? I see how it can cause less wear on the clutch, but...huh?

A friend of mine's K1200R is in for a transmission rebuild out of warranty and it is over $5K. Ouch. A bent shifting fork. He says it is not from upshifting without the clutch (which he does).

Methinks your friend is getting the royal screwing of his life. Over $5K for a transmission rebuild is nuts. If it is not too late tell him to retrieve his bike and find a used transmission in salvage. The whole job of removing old, installing new can be done by anybody in under 8 hours. Actually the last time I did it was on my R1150R (I lubed the splines with the help of a friend at 40K miles) and that bike is much more difficult to work on than the R1200R so it might not take anywhere near 8 hours. Any independent shop can do this work, or maybe he can find a friend with a lift in his home shop. This ain't rocket science. There are dealers out there who should be wearing masks. Where is the Lone Ranger when we need him?

Bill

Bill Stevenson wrote:Methinks your friend is getting the royal screwing of his life.
Bill

You may be right.

I saw my friend the other night, and BMW ended up covering the cost.

While it makes sense to me that shifting without using the clutch is probably the opposite of smart, I was intrigued by the concept. After carefully and successfully shifting without the clutch, I satisfied my curiosity and don't feel the need to keep doing what could possibly harm the tranny.

However, I feel it taught me a good lesson. The coordination required to carry out this technique, is, it seems to me, a great training exercise for smoothly shifting the BMW transmission. I find that all my shifts now are cleaner and quicker with less clunking from the drive train.

I don't know what YOU guys are talking about, but MY clutch shifts ARE electric smooth... Maybe you need some more practice with the clutch...