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Talking about mirrors that "work" - the stock ones do..

Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 8:54 am
by deilenberger
Now.

They used to be pretty buzzy and useless. I'm working my way though my 18k service, and as part of it Monday night I adjusted the valves. While I was doing the valve adjustment, I did what it seems none of the dealers ever bother doing - set the rocker-arm endplay.

Quick explaination: The rocker arms do exactly what it sounds like - rock around a shaft, transferring in-out motion from a pushrod going to the camshaft follower to the top of the valve - making it go in-out. Valve adjustment is setting the clearances between the rocker arm and the top of the valve stem. End play is setting the amount of movement the rocker arm is allowed up and down on the shaft it rotates (rocks) on.

Image
#1 is the rocker arm, #4 is the shaft..

The shaft is held in position by:
Image

In particular - the part we're interested in is the piece exploded off to the lower right, with screws 2 & 3 going into it. This is where you adjust the rocker arm endplay.

If there is too much endplay - the rocker arm, besides rocking, moves up and down on the shaft. That does two things.. it makes noise and vibration, and it lessens the valve stroke since some of the in-out motion is now used up moving the rocker up and down. IMPORTANT: This means - if there is excessive end-play - you can adjust the valve clearance to perfection, and you still will not have the correct valve stroke... and the engine will not be running correctly!

The goal of adjusting the endplay is to get as small an amount of free-movement up/down of the rocker while still allowing it to rotate freely on the shaft. BMW specifies a range of something like 0.015-0.0015" (approx numbers, I don't have the DVD with me.) I try to shoot for the minimum clearance since it makes the engine run considerable quieter.

Adjusting it involves slightly loosening 3 torx screws and one head-stud-nut and then tapping the bottom "bridge" up/down to get the correct clearances. I use a small brass hammer to tap the bridge. The torx screws are simple, but the head-stud-nut (#8 & #9 in the lower right side of the image) is something I'd rather do only once, since it's a tighten-to-torque-then-angle to retighten it (AKA angle-torque), and if you do this enough times you stand a chance of pulling the stud out of the crankcase (bad thing..) I want to do this adjustment once and then never do it again. Luckily - once it's set right - I've never seen one change.

Anyway - I made the adjustment. One rocker on one side was particularly out of adjustment. With no pressure on the rockers (at the same point where you adjust the valve clearances) - I could get a loud "clack!" noise if I tried moving the rocker up/down by hand. The others were a bit wider than I'd like them, but not awful. When I was done - they were all close to the 0.0015" clearance and made a soft "tick" noise if I tried moving them up/down, but they still rocked easily.

I then went through and did an anal valve adjustment(tm) - meaning I tried for perfection, not just "good enough"..

When I got it all buttoned up and started it up it sounded very nice. I checked the throttle-body sync - and it's a tiny bit off at idle (have to visit the dealer and get them to tweek the steppers with the GT1) but absoutely perfect above idle, even with max sensitivity on my TwinMax.

I took a very short test ride - and found the engine felt so smooth it was almost like it wasn't running. Took it to work yesterday - and found it's almost totally vibration free - and the rear-view mirrors are now useable from 2,000 RPM-6,000 RPM, with no vibes.

So lessons learned:

- Don't expect the dealers to correctly adjust the rocker end-play. It's supposed to be set at the 600 mile service, but I have never tuned an oilhead (and now a hexhead) where it was correctly set. And I've tuned about 6 different local club members oilheads, all of them had been serviced by the dealers.

- Get the adjustments right.. first the end-play, then the valve clearances. Since the end-play does have an effect on the amount of time the valves are open, it does have an effect on how well balanced the combusion of the cylinders will be. Get this set right once (I've never had to readjust one after making the initial adjustment), and I've found the valves will rarely ever need adjusting again.

- Tweeked to an anal amount(tm) - this is one damn smooth engine. It "feels" a bit less powerful, it's not - that's the smooth non-vibrating feel that makes it feel that way. It still squirts past cars just fine.. sounds sorta like a turbine winding up doing it. Zoooooooooommmmmmmm..

I'm super impressed with this engine, since I learned all the anal-tricks trying to get rid of engine vibration on my old '04 R1150RS (I never could - which is why I bought the R..) and the balance of the R12 engine must just about be perfect.

Re: Talking about mirrors that "work" - the stock ones do..

Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 5:50 pm
by OlyVR
Don,

Thanks so much for going through the trouble of posting this.

I don't trust my dealer to do it, b/c if he was supposed to do it at 600 miles, who's to say they won't take my money and still not do it? For me to tackle it, can you elaborate on the angle torque procedure?
However, better yet though, how do I get you down here for a tech day at Oliver's house?
Bribe you with Spaten Helles (aka Spaten Munich Lager) [ahem after the tech day of course] :D ?
Give you a Plant Spartanburg tour?

It really sounds like I need to look into this, so thanks again for posting it.
Oliver

Re: Talking about mirrors that "work" - the stock ones do..

Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 6:00 pm
by celticus
Great! Thanks Don! I'll be there too if it's not on a rally weekend.
Mark

Re: Talking about mirrors that "work" - the stock ones do..

Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 11:29 pm
by ShinySideUp
The "tighten-to-torque-then-angle to retighten it (AKA angle-torque)" is shown on Jim Von Baden's DVD. Basically it consists of tightening the fastener to 20 Nm and then advancing the torque wrench handle other 180 degrees. And yes, it's a bit scary.

This would be a good place to repost the fact that Jim's otherwise excellent DVD has a serious torque value error about this exact procedure.
This error can cause ENGINE DAMAGE. And has. For details, enter "WARNING! ENGINE DAMAGE!" in the search box for this forum.

The specs, copied & pasted directly from the BMW DVD for rocker arm adjustment:

1133 - Rocker/follower with bearing
Rocker arm endplay 0.05...0.4 mm

While agreeing with Don about shooting for the smaller number for the rocker arm endplay, when it comes to doing the valves themselves, I take the advice of a seasoned BMW mechanic and make the feeler gauge on the loose side of sliding, rather than the tight side. "It's better to hear your valves than smell them!" So for me, the "anal" part is getting all the valves gauges to slide to the same degree of looseness, NOT to see how close to "firm" I can get. Its gets anal because the intake adjustment affects the exhaust, and vice versa, so the feedback loops can sometimes drive me crazy (short trip!).

The result: the infamous vibration point of 4000 rpm is gone from my engine. (Can't comment on mirror shake, since I opted for bar-ends).

Re: Talking about mirrors that "work" - the stock ones do..

Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 8:10 am
by deilenberger
Agree with everything that Bill sez (Bill - the TINYURL link isn't working..)

Simple rule with the torque/settings for this procedure:
  • Rocker arm endplay - max of 0.015, min of 0.0015 (The important thing, it has to rock "freely" after adjusting. Endplay is a real PITA to measure, so I set them by ear and feel. Big click noise up/down = bad, small click noise = good, no click noise = bad; and rocker must rock freely. ALL rockers should sound and feel the same.)
  • Head bolt torque - 15 ft/lbs, then 180 degrees
  • Rocker bridge screws torque - 15 ft/lbs
Being someone who (1) doesn't have a metric torque wrench (2) is used to inches and ft/lbs - the number 15 is easy for me to remember.. and in the case of this job - all settings/torques come up as VERY close to 15, so easy for me to remember it. :)

(For our FT/LB impaired friends)
  • Rocker arm endplay - 0.4-0.04 mm
  • Head bolt torque - 20Nm, then 180 degrees
  • Rocker bridge screws torque - 20Nm

Re: Talking about mirrors that "work" - the stock ones do..

Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 11:07 am
by ShinySideUp
deilenberger wrote: (Bill - the TINYURL link isn't working..)
Thanks, Don. My post edited with the link removed.

Re: Talking about mirrors that "work" - the stock ones do..

Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 1:33 pm
by Graf
hi Bill......since I am in Bay Area also, would it be possible for me to observe this whole rocker arm/valve adjustmant procedure live the next time you do it? All I want is to observe....and maybe take a few notes :-k I'll bring beer....or whatever you preffer :D
thx....alex

Re: Talking about mirrors that "work" - the stock ones do..

Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 8:32 pm
by ShinySideUp
Heck, Alex, if you bring the beer you can DO the adjustments, not just watch!

PM me your contact info and I'll reciprocate. BTW, I'm in South SF.

Re: Talking about mirrors that "work" - the stock ones do..

Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 11:13 pm
by Graf
ShinySideUp wrote:Heck, Alex, if you bring the beer you can DO the adjustments, not just watch!

PM me your contact info and I'll reciprocate. BTW, I'm in South SF.
sounds good 8-[ ....pm sent

Re: Talking about mirrors that "work" - the stock ones do..

Posted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 7:58 am
by OlyVR
ShinySideUp wrote:The "tighten-to-torque-then-angle to retighten it (AKA angle-torque)" is shown on Jim Von Baden's DVD. Basically it consists of tightening the fastener to 20 Nm and then advancing the torque wrench handle other 180 degrees. And yes, it's a bit scary.

Thank you very much for the clarification.
Another 180 degrees after a torque-tighten sounds plenty scrary for a first timer.
I'll read up on it twice and then twice more before attempting it.

Re: Talking about mirrors that "work" - the stock ones do..

Posted: Tue Aug 05, 2008 6:36 pm
by celticus
During an almost 600 mile trip this weekend I looked for mirror vibration and found none.
Mark

Re: Talking about mirrors that "work" - the stock ones do..

Posted: Sat Jan 10, 2009 2:30 pm
by nixdsg
hey all,

I just adjusted my rocker end play and valve clearance, first time. Not too bad. End play may be a little on the tight side of the .051mm (the size of the feeler gage I had) for the exhaust but the rocker rotated very smoothly. My only concern would be that I completed the adjustment with an ambient temperature of ~45 deg F. Not sure if that would make any different compared to doing it a say 70 deg F.

Most of the rockers had a .07 to .120mm of end play but one was greater the .280mm. My guess is that is the one that was causing the mirrors to vibrate. The only problem is that it's going to be MONTHS before I can test it!!! Come on spring!

valve clearance went well also, again maybe a little tight when putting the gage on both valve ends at the same time but felt better when I did one at a time.

Looking forward to testing the results!

Nic

Re: Talking about mirrors that "work" - the stock ones do..

Posted: Sat Jan 24, 2009 1:07 pm
by Matt
Thanks for everyone’s information on this post, it has been an interesting read especially as I had a tappet noise from my engine that I have wanted to cure for some time. I have just adjusted the rocker end play and valve clearances, it has got rid off a tappet noise but the bike is still lumpy at idle, if I try and sync the throttle bodies using an air meter what adjustments can I make or is this only achieved by a dealer ?

Re: Talking about mirrors that "work" - the stock ones do..

Posted: Sun Jan 25, 2009 12:50 pm
by deilenberger
Matt wrote:Thanks for everyone’s information on this post, it has been an interesting read especially as I had a tappet noise from my engine that I have wanted to cure for some time. I have just adjusted the rocker end play and valve clearances, it has got rid off a tappet noise but the bike is still lumpy at idle, if I try and sync the throttle bodies using an air meter what adjustments can I make or is this only achieved by a dealer ?
Lumpy at idle is pretty much normal... if the balance is good at 2K RPM, then the valves are fine and the TB balance is good. I don't ride at idle, so I don't let it concern me. The lumpy seems related to engine temps, and usually mostly clears up as the engine warms up.

The dealer supposedly can change the balance of the stepper motors - which really are the only balance that can be done at idle... I say "supposedly" because I've also heard (1) they can't really - they can just change the idle speed setting a bit (2) they can't at all (3) that the TB's are purposely set a tiny bit out of balance at idle by BMW for some reason.

Everyone I know who has tried balancing the TB's with the steppers connected, and with them disconnected has reported no difference in balance off idle.

Anyway - if it was me - lumpy idle - I'd just forgeddaboutit. It seems a characteristic of the engine under some running conditions.

Re: Talking about mirrors that "work" - the stock ones do..

Posted: Sun Jan 25, 2009 4:45 pm
by Matt
I do like the lumpiness of the 1200 but just wanted to get it was running perfect, I have mostly had single cylinder bikes and when I bought a Triumph triple last year I could not cope with the smoothness and it had to go, the12R is definitely a member of my family now.