BMW R1200R R1150R/T F800 K1200R R1100R/T R1250R RnineT Message Board

A dollar buys you practically nothing these days, not even decent cup of coffee. But I found a BMW R1150R workshop DVD on Ebay for less than a buck. Of course I paid 5 for S/H. This DVD is a treasure trove, with clear diagrams, along with concise and explicit steps to do any thing on the bike. I know what you are thinking now. Indeed it is a pirated DVD, on the other hand it is not an "intellectual" property,say, a song or a software.

In addition to the above I ordered these from Bob's:
A special funnell (crooked, looks funny) for trans oil change.
An oil filter tool ( Bob's own)
RatioRite beaker. Now I can exactly measure the fluids.
A key blank
BMW oil filters and
a Fuel Filter
All simple and inexpensive items but in the long run they will prove their worth. If you are intersted you can find them at Bob's Pit stop. I keep a copy of the pit stop,Adobe, on my desktop.

Enjoy, celebrate Life.

M Khan

mkmd555 wrote:A dollar buys you practically nothing these days, not even decent cup of coffee. But I found a BMW R1150R workshop DVD on Ebay for less than a buck. Of course I paid 5 for S/H. This DVD is a treasure trove, with clear diagrams, along with concise and explicit steps to do any thing on the bike. I know what you are thinking now. Indeed it is a pirated DVD, on the other hand it is not an "intellectual" property,say, a song or a software.

In addition to the above I ordered these from Bob's:
A special funnell (crooked, looks funny) for trans oil change.
An oil filter tool ( Bob's own)
RatioRite beaker. Now I can exactly measure the fluids.
A key blank
BMW oil filters and
a Fuel Filter
All simple and inexpensive items but in the long run they will prove their worth. If you are intersted you can find them at Bob's Pit stop. I keep a copy of the pit stop,Adobe, on my desktop.

Enjoy, celebrate Life.

M Khan

Here's what else I'm thinking now -- if you think this DVD is not intellectual property, then you don't know what you're talking about.

I think the intellectual property is the motorcycle which we paid for. The motorcycle, if copied, say by other lesser makers would be considered a piracy. The DVD is about the bike.

The real intellectual hard work went into the bike. If the bike did not exist the DVD would have no value.

In contrast a song or a software stands alone-- something primary. I don't think sending the lyrics of a song would be a piracy.

This is my thinking about intellectual property.
M Khan

mkmd555 wrote:I think the intellectual property is the motorcycle which we paid for. The motorcycle, if copied, say by other lesser makers would be considered a piracy. The DVD is about the bike.

The real intellectual hard work went into the bike. If the bike did not exist the DVD would have no value.

In contrast a song or a software stands alone-- something primary. I don't think sending the lyrics of a song would be a piracy.

This is my thinking about intellectual property.
M Khan

Just out of curiosity,

Do you think that the artist that did the illustrations should be compensated for their work, the way a songwriter is paid for publishing rights? Do you think Haynes or Clymer might be a little miffed if we photocopied their manuals and sold them for pennies on the dollar? If I told someone how to change a tire and took a few snap shots, that's one thing. Copying the work someone else did and published, and transmitting for my own personal financial gain goes beyond fair-use. You got a steal of a deal on the manual. I wouldn't crow too loudly about it.

cricman

mkmd555 wrote:This is my thinking about intellectual property.
M Khan

M Khan is just someone trying to justify their view on piracy to make themselves feel better. Having had proprietary and intellectual properties stolen I take offense to your views on this. Honestly though I'm not mad at you, it's the thief who did the original piracy who pisses me off. I'm merely disappointed that you think this is a score.

Intellectual Property is still a highly arguable notion in the U.S. courts. Many claim such rights but there are equally good counter claims. Simpler to leave the argument aside and recognize that the DVD in question might well violate simple copyright without resorting to more difficult to pursue claims.

mkmd555 wrote:I think the intellectual property is the motorcycle which we paid for. The motorcycle, if copied, say by other lesser makers would be considered a piracy. The DVD is about the bike.

The real intellectual hard work went into the bike. If the bike did not exist the DVD would have no value.

In contrast a song or a software stands alone-- something primary. I don't think sending the lyrics of a song would be a piracy.

This is my thinking about intellectual property.
M Khan

To repeat -- you don't know what you're talking about.

Do you know what you are talking about?

MK

It must not be an issue to the manufacturers, because there is a maintenance CD on e-bay for most vehicles out there. Saw one for the Hayabusa, Raptor 660, Rockster, K1200R, and RT. Many forums even have downloadable versions on them. I'm sure it would be easy to go after the original "pirater" or seller, and I've always wondered why they don't. Yes. it's absolutely IP. If it wasn't IP, then it wouldn't sell for outrageous $$$.

FWIW - yes the DVD is "pirated" IP. The CopyRight is the property (automatically) of the original "artists" (in this case that would be BMW).

Yes you got a good deal on the DVD, as did everyone else here who's got a copy or downloaded the PDF from the internet. (who are also "guilty" of IP theft btw).

Is it worth crowing about - not reallly.

Is it a big deal - not really.

Why don't BMW chase everyone? It's not economically feasible, or worth it.

mkmd555 wrote:I think the intellectual property is the motorcycle which we paid for. The motorcycle, if copied, say by other lesser makers would be considered a piracy. The DVD is about the bike.

The real intellectual hard work went into the bike. If the bike did not exist the DVD would have no value.

In contrast a song or a software stands alone-- something primary. I don't think sending the lyrics of a song would be a piracy.

This is my thinking about intellectual property.
M Khan

Why don't you drop by a bookstore and pick up a couple books about BMW motorcycles. Don't bother paying for them before you leave the store. After all, they are not actual BMWs you're taking; they are just books about BMWs.

I hope that you do not live your entire life by your own made-up rules. If you do, you will forever be paying the price for your crimes and torts. And you will remain bewildered at how the world ignores your interpretations and instead applies the rules that everyone else goes by.

Hi: The more I think The more I beleive that I made a mistake by purchasing the DVD.
I also discovered that BMW sells the DVD, therfore it was wrong to buy the pirated DVD.

However,my initial euphoria melted whrn I discovered that the DVD only contains mundane information like oil changes and brake adjustments. It is not a full workshop manual.

I have been chastised!

M Khan

mkmd555 wrote:Hi: The more I think The more I beleive that I made a mistake by purchasing the DVD.
I also discovered that BMW sells the DVD, therfore it was wrong to buy the pirated DVD.

However,my initial euphoria melted whrn I discovered that the DVD only contains mundane information like oil changes and brake adjustments. It is not a full workshop manual.

I have been chastised!

M Khan

There's a saying over here - "You get what you pay for".

I am just wondering which of the posters on this thread never copied a DVD, CD, VHS or audio tape belonging to a friend.
Or downloaded and listened to mp3. Failed to declare taxes. Drove/rode above the speed limit.
Lied to their parents. Lied to their teachers. Used illegal substances. The list goes on.

I am not promoting piracy by all means, but some of the posts smack of "holier than though".

Who will throw the first stone?

Interesting point about the artist. The person who drew the illustrations was most likely a contracted artist. They were paid a flat hourly fee. Corporations own most copyrights.

Should a fee for a copyright item go up or down over time? Is that fee negotiable? After the cost of reproduction (nothing in the case of a PDF file), what is a fair and equitable price for a copy?

It is a subject worth discussing, but probably not on the roadster site.

Human nature, with all its failings, will never fail to amuse me. I am surprised that a few members have pm'd me re the CD!

We all have moral lacunaes.

We will never be Immanuel Kant.

M Khan