Advice wanted: 2 up riding

[iowabeakster]

After a 4 hour ride, Amy and I were pretty beat up. We were both fatigued and had sore backs and rumps. My back was espscially sore/tired. We don't do a lot of 2 up riding. For highway riding it is more fun for her to jump on the back of my R, until we can get a bigger bike to replace here "starter" bike. This is only the second or third time for 2 up riding this year. Although only an infrequent occurance, I would like to make it as comfortable as possible.

When I am by myself, I find the ride to be a joy: no fatigue, soreness just happy miles. I guess I have the suspension as good as I am going to get the stock suspension, for just me. When Amy jumps on, I crank down the preload. I get it to within a few clicks of maximum pre-load. I don't adjust the rebound. The rebound is 1.75 (give or take .25, from constant tweaking) turns from maximum "H", both front and rear. Our combined weight is 265 lbs, we had no cases or other gear. Tire pressure was 39.5(front) 40.5(rear), cold, when we headed off.

Not only did the bumps feel worse, I felt that wind buffeting was much worse with her on the back. I would usually ride faster, by myself. With her on, I ride slower. Still, I felt like the wind was kicking me around.

When riding 2 up, I am tense and nervous. She is a great passenger. She sits still, keeps balanced, and "flows correctly" with the turns. Above 25 or 30 MPH, I don't even notice her there. I find my slow speed handling suffers as a result of the additional 115 pounds sitting on the passenger seat. This is pretty normal, I figure.

My questions:

How do you guys adjust the suspension for a passenger?
Anybody else feel the wind buffeting was worse with a passenger? What to do?
Are my problems just nervous anxiety and tension?

Any and all comments, suggestions, advice are wanted.

Thanks,

[DJ Downunder]

"How do you guys adjust the suspension for a passenger? "...We are both medium weights and I find that one click back from full hard works well.

"Anybody else feel the wind buffeting was worse with a passenger? What to do?"...I find very little difference with someone on the back..better if anything.

"Are my problems just nervous anxiety and tension?"..Yes..but I think that these problems that you find with riding with a pillion is normal.

The more you do it..the less you will notice it..My only grip is that I can't ride with my toes on the pegs like I normaly do because of my big feet.

My bike sure feels faster and lighter once they get off....er..maybe I better stop now.. ..I hope this helps.

DJ

[NAIAD]

Pretty much agree down the line with DJ's response. Infrequent two up riding may be adding significantly to what you're feeling. We did a lot of two up riding years ago, but now when Cindy is on the back I do get more tense in a subtle sort of way. A little tension can go along way, unfortunately. Fortunately this "problem" has a logical cure...just go on more rides together! But perhaps not marathon 4 hour stints. Kind of like the old saw about how do you get to Carnegie Hall...practice, practice, practice.

Other thing...how old is your machine? Is perhaps the rear shock and spring getting a bit sacked out? And though your medium weight, think I'd at least crank the preload to the max and add a touch more rebound control as well. Particularly if you notice a huge change in the slow speed handling, sounds like the bike may have it's beak in the air. Doing everything you can to help shift the CofG back towards the front may alleviate the condition a bit. But the slow speed stuff, even with a lightweight on the back, is always more touchy.

Ciao! BJ

PS. Though I live on the Left Coast now, my family's originally from Ft. Dodge. You a Hawkeye's or Cyclones fan?

[Hopz]

I am going out on a limb here, and the "collective"may shun me but I do have some experience in this.

As a bench mark let me tell you I ride 2-up about 90 percent of the time. We are both in the 60+ years old range, in great health, no heavy weights involved.

Here it goes... the R Bike is not a touring bike, and is not, IMO, good for 2-up work, much beyond an afternoon joy ride.

You can do things to make it better, but you are trying to make a horse out of a mule. Don't try.

If you want a seriously good 2-up you are going to have to look at a different bike. Harleys are good, some of the metric cruisers are too. Another option is to get her her own ride. That works even better.

Having said all that, I can tell you I like to ride. Period. She likes to ride with me and we enjoy experiencing things together. I cannot comprehend going on a ride by myself and then returning to try to tell her how much fun it was. Our relationship is not built that way. But then we have only been married 42 years.

Bob

[sjbmw]

My kid's record is 415 miles in one day. Other than some money butt, he was fine. Having a passenger always changes the ride dynamic. That's normal.

For some off reason, after I got speech communications and a XM radio installed in our helmets, 2 up is not an issue. We talk and listen to tunes, and talk and it is a HUGE shift in the experience.

We will find out next month, 800+ miles to Wisconsin, 2-up.

Now, if 2 up touring IS the goal, I can tell you one teenager that will swear by the LT. My friend put him pillion for the ride home from VT last summer, and for some odd reason, my kid had LT on the brain.

But that is a 900 lb bike, of course it's comfy.
3 years, and my son can get his own bike.....

I would explore some passenger communication devices. They really changed the ride for us.

[Trapper]

I went for a three hour ride with my "better half" on the back on Sunday evening. I normally ride solo (90% of the time), and fairly quickly, but I was surprised to find that once the bike was rolling - ie above 10 miles per hour the bike actually cornered better than one-up.

Admittedly I was travelling at slightly lower speeds, but I found the stability was extra-ordinary; very "planted" on the road, and I could lean the bike over to a ridiculous degree. My wife isn't normally a speed merchant, so I was wary that she might be troubled by energetic riding, but she actually mentioned that it felt safe and secure through the bends.

I noticed that as the ride went on I was working a little harder, and concentrating more, to keep things smooth, but on the whole I enjoyed the experience every bit as much as tearing about on my own. Perhaps more so, because I had someone to talk to, and to share the experience with.

Total weight on the bike was 290 lbs, and the suspension pre-load was 6 clicks out from fully loaded. Damper settings front and rear were 1 full turn out from fully hard.

I have a vario roadster screen and there was no difference in turbulance for me - but I did notice that I got covered in flies, whilst Her Ladyship did not.

I will probably still do mostly solo riding, but will definitely be doing more and more two-up, (I've bought a pillion back-rest to make it that bit more comfortable.)
It takes extra effort, and I reckon I need to do lots more practice, but I'm confident the shared experience will make the effort worthwhile.

Can't wait

Cheers

[klrstix]

OK my two cents....

I ride two up with my teenage daughter who is in the neighborhood of 165lbs. I come in at 140lbs. I have the Aeroflow "large" touring screen and on occasion use the tank wings from Aeroflow. I also have bar-backs that help with my riding posture (I am 6 ft tall) and a GIVI V46 top case. Incidentally my daughter is about 5'7". Everything else about my bike is stock. Our longest ride involved a group ride that lasted about 4 1/2 hours and less than 250 Miles.

Our experiences have basically two "issues" that both involve the passenger seat. For her its the "monkey butt" thing. Just really not very good for passenger comfort. For me as the "pilot" what I find is the "forward" slant of the rear seat has the tendency to "push" her onto my back which in turn makes me feel she is "riding piggy-back" on me.

As a pilot I have learned to make the "adjustment" for the significant additional riding (or should I say piloting) nuances my daughter brings especially given she is "bigger" than I am.

The solution given my circumstances is to put a different passenger seat that 1) does not "push" her onto my back and 2) provides greater comfort for her. I am in the process of working with a local auto upholstery business to accomplish this without the significant cost of say a "Sargent" or "Russell" seat. Once this is done I am certain it will dramatically improve both our experiences...

[geothepencil]

Guess I'm gonna have to do something different. My passengers tend to fall asleep so they must be comfortable. Maybe the answer is making it torture for them so they don't fall off.

geo

[Boxer]

When I first got the bike and the shocks were new, the 2-up riding was much more pleasurable. But it still had its quirks. I find the feet position thing that DJ mentioned, to be a nuisance. I have almost fallen before when not able to move my feet down fast enough at a stop sign from getting hung up on her toes. My wife and I together weigh in at about 380 pounds. Thats a heavy load for the bike. The pillion seat sucks unless you get the 'comfort seat'. I used to have one and sold it. Now I regret it. She gets an awful sore butt and hips riding for any time, even with the backrest.

I have to agree with the poster who says this is not a good two-up touring bike. Its hard work, and there are much better choices. The Goldwing or BMW LT come to mind, or maybe the new K1200GT. Now that's a nice bike!
But for what this little beast cost and riding by myself, I couldn't be more pleased. Thats why we, (my wife and I) decided that a second bike would be a better solution to us riding together. If the day comes when I start getting old (:-)that I need a more relaxed bike for the both of us, then one of those tricycle things might even be an option.

[DSKYZD]

Herb,

What comm system did you go with?

D

[Hopz]

I will let Herb answer for himself...

We use a Scala Rider Teamset. It is Bluetooth from pilot to rider, no wires. Full-duplex two-way communications, great re-chargeable battery life. Not that costly.

Love it.

[sjbmw]

Herb,

What comm system did you go with?

D

I picked up a used AutoCom Pro-M1 from a guy I met at a rally.
I had to buy the second headset from Autocom.
That headset almost cost as much as the unit!
Works well.

[Lion_Lady]

Herb,

What comm system did you go with?

D

Judging by the look of the connecting wires, I'd say that's an Autocom system.

I've got the Autocom Pro7 Sport and LOVE IT! Rode to Athens, GA with my teen age daughter on the back of my Rockster last summer. We could talk, sing along with the XM Radio, and she could hear the GPS commands too.

P

[Lion_Lady]

Not only did the bumps feel worse, I felt that wind buffeting was much worse with her on the back. I would usually ride faster, by myself. With her on, I ride slower. Still, I felt like the wind was kicking me around. . .

...How do you guys adjust the suspension for a passenger?
Thanks,

How many miles are on your shocks? My guess is, if they're beyond 25-30K miles, they're getting 'tired.'

I replaced my shocks at 21K and it felt like I had a new motorcycle.

The deterioration is so gradual that you don't realize that they're going until you either have a sudden problem, or you get new ones.

P

[peterbulgar]

Here it goes... the R Bike is not a touring bike, and is not, IMO, good for 2-up work, much beyond an afternoon joy ride.

You can do things to make it better, but you are trying to make a horse out of a mule. Don't try.

Don't you mean that you are trying to make a mule out of a horse?

A touring bike is a bike that you go touring on. Some will be more comfortable than others, some will be better suited to interstates than tight mountain roads. I'd rather ride my R two-up over Bear Creek Pass than ride an LT over the same road, although the LT might be more comfortable on I-90. If you don't think the R is a tourer, then my old R75/5 (with narrow bars and no windscreen) wouldn't be a tourer either, although my wife and I took two trips on it from CA to the east coast and back camping all the way. My R90/6 with narrow bars and an S fairing didn't look like a Harley or a Gold Wing, but it carried my son and me on three trips of over 4000 miles each. My R carried my son and me to Alaska and back, and my daughter and me on a 4000 mile camping trip around the Northwest.

My R has BMW cases, a sport windscreen, a Pirate's Lair backrest, and a Sargent passenger seat. (The backrest was the number one amenity for passenger comfort, with the Sargent seat is a close second.) It has enough rated load capacity for two medium sized passengers and their gear, up to and including camping gear if that's your thing. It is not as comfortable as your favorite sofa, it doesn't have a satellite radio or a 6-speaker stereo, and since there's no communication system, when we stop we have something to talk about. Some people like all that stuff, and if the rider and passenger are larger people, you may need more room than you have on an R, but for me the R is the best touring bike I've ever owned. By the way I'm 61.
Peter '73 R75/5, '04 R1150RA

[DJ Downunder]

I agree the BMW Roadster is a great two up bike..It's not in the same league as an LT or Goldwing..But much better than most other bikes out there.

It's the two up comfort and the torque that the big boxer engine that make me love this bike so much.

Beginners at riding two up should be careful not to lean the bike too much when putting a foot down at stops..that extra weight is quickly noticeable.

I have recently bought the comfort pillion seat and I think..and have been told..that it's much better..it is higher at the front and helps stops them slipping forward.

DJ

[iowabeakster]

Thanks for all the thoughtful replies.

FWIW:My bike sits on the center stand continuously for about 3+ months a year (even more the last couple years). The shocks are good, only 8500 miles .I am happy with the ride quality when riding solo. I did a number of 10 hour days, before work took over all of my time. I will definitely try even more preload, and tighten the rebound next time.

Touring 2 up is not something that I plan on doing with this bike. "Touring" meaning: Not going to work, not sleeping in my own bed. Since we both work everyday, we don't tour. Amy has shown an interest in riding, so she has her little KZ250 to abuse and practice with. Getting a bigger bike for her is the real solution, if and when we "tour". That's a pricey farkle, and the one we both want. I would like to see a shiny new F800st for her under the Christmas tree.

I would just like to take her on more of my little 1-4 hour afternoon joyrides. Then when we head into work, we are not so stiff and sore as on this last one. We may have to keep the 2 up riding a little closer to home.

Anybody else, everybody else, please give your 2 cents.

DJ, is that a BMW or aftermarket comfort pillion seat you are talking about? Who makes the backrests?

Herb,

Other than some money butt, he was fine

Your son is always welcome to use the facilties at my house.


Thanks,
Kirk

[TicTac50]

This is a very interesting topic and especially at the time of planning for the 1600 miles ride 2-up to Milwaukee, Wisconsin. I have to agree with everybody that R1150R is definitely not a 2-up touring bike, but to make a horse out of the mule is another story.
I have nearly 50K on my bike and I would say that 70% of it was riding 2-up.
Right out of the box the bike is not a touring machine at all.
We are both in our mid fifties and combine weight is about 400 pounds. When I travel long distances, I carry about 140 pounds in my Top case, tank bag and side cases combined. We have no problem doing 500-600 miles a day and we do not get fatigued at all.
1. Avon tires with front 36psi and the rear 42psi
2. Bar backs 1.5inch up and 1.5inch back together with the Wunderlich touring bar.
3. Russell seats, absolutely a must.
4. AeroFlow Tall touring screen with the tank wings will make your ride less fatigue.
5. GIVI Top case E-52 with the back pad, case is relocated 6 inches back, because my passenger was always on my back.
6. Regular side cases and an average size tank bag.
7. Wunderlich crash bars with the good running lights.
8. Rebound is set to 1.00 from “S” front and back.
9. Pre-load is set to four clicks back from “HIGH,” after I added some oil.
I was thinking about LT for a while but decided that it is too big for my needs.
After all, I had no problems going from Miami to Canada or California. Maybe it is not a horse yet, but it is for sure a good running mule.

[CycleRob]

My 2-up riding is only about 5% of the time. Our combined weight is 276lbs, we're both 60 and are looking at 20 years of taking the bike when the weather is OK. Here's what we've learned:

1 - Stop and rest every 50 minutes whether you need it or not to get the circulation going again. That's when you should . . . .

2 - Drink more water type fluids than you want to as the wind accelerates normal dehydration and you won't feel thirsty until it is already too late. Dehydration causes serious fatigue and that's dangerous.

3 - If you don't have an intercom . . . pointing, shouting and spousal telepathy work OK too.

4 - Of course the speeds are slower and the following distance grows to at least 3 seconds worth of space at any speed.

5 - Be sure the passenger hangs on before the clutch is released. The neutral balance issues when stopped should be understood too.

6 - If slow traffic ruins your ride, pull over and wait for them to leave -or- take a liquid break.

[DJ Downunder]

Good tips Rob..

DJ