BMW R1200R R1150R/T F800 K1200R R1100R/T R1250R RnineT Message Board

mogu83 wrote:Is that a Good-by??

I think he's trying to understand what drives the hostility toward anything that resembles an open discussion about skills vs technology. For example how is it that anything less than "ABS is the best thing since sliced bread" elicits such strong and negative responses from some people? Whatever happened to civil discourse? Is it not possible to agree to disagree? Or to respect the fact that our opinions, while obvious and perfectly logical in our own minds, are still just our opinions and not immutable facts?

cheers,

="Jed I think he's trying to understand what drives the hostility toward anything that resembles an open discussion about skills vs technology. cheers,

O - I didn't see that as the purpose of his posts, but then again I'm not a real sensitive type. A discussion (If one can have a discussion on the internet) about skills vs technology would be interesting, but might be better accepted on the "Off Topic" forum where everyone could partake. In fact I'll start a thread there for him.
After all Ricco just wanted to know about the R1200R (this is an R1200R list), I'm sure with his background with BMW machines he's well aware of the Pros and Cons of ABS.

mogu83 wrote:Is that a Good-by??

Dunno Harry, he seems rather paranoid actually. Thinks people are picking on him. Wonder what inspired his last good-bye to this forum?

Jed wrote:

mogu83 wrote:Is that a Good-by??

I think he's trying to understand what drives the hostility toward anything that resembles an open discussion about skills vs technology. For example how is it that anything less than "ABS is the best thing since sliced bread" elicits such strong and negative responses from some people? Whatever happened to civil discourse? Is it not possible to agree to disagree? Or to respect the fact that our opinions, while obvious and perfectly logical in our own minds, are still just our opinions and not immutable facts?

cheers,

Jed, dunno where you see non-civil discourse. No one has been called an butt crevice, and Hitler hasn't been mentioned. Those are my threshold for non-civil. Godwin's law hasn't been needed even once. Spirited discussion? Yep. Strong opinions. Yep. Agree to disagree - seems a lot of people prefaced or followed their postings with exactly that - it's their OPINION.

I'm a somewhat delicate flower - easily offended, thin skinned, shy-retiring, reticent (just ask Harry..) - and I found nothing in this thread offensive, even when my riding skill level was being attacked (big ass grin here.. ) .. So really dunno why the don't need ABS people are getting so upset.

Color me puzzled.. I've seen nothing said here that wouldn't be said to someone face to face. But - mebbe I missed it. Interwebz communications are very difficult to get irony, just kidding, etc., across..

I freely admit I didn't read every reply so far. Has anyone suggested that you visit your BMW dealer and take a R1200R for a long test ride? BMW is the only manufacturer (that I know of) that will let you take test rides. Stop in parking lots, maneuver the bike, see how it feels, etc.

I formerly rode a '99 Harley FLHT, and switched to a '99 R1100R. The ability to move the bike around the garage and parking lots is substantially easier with the R. However, if you have back problems the R riding position may be much more uncomfortable than the couch like riding position of the Harley. The R will put a lot of pressure right on your tail bone.

The difference in weight and "stopped" maneuverability between the Harley and the BMW R is hard to describe. I am able to load my BMW R into my pickup truck, drive to places with warmer weather and unload it and ride. I can do this by myself with a ramp and very little effort. I would never dream of doing this with my former Harley.

Is it me, or are the two guys who hi-jacked this thread to post their views about ABS now complaining that there's no civil discourse becaus ethier demand for chapter and verse get answered with opinion?

Seems to me they posted their views, were met with equally strong views, a little amused feather-tickling, and this normal internet interchange (as Don sez, no-one invoked Hilter .. well, there was a small attempt at invoking Stalinism - but that's a term or endearment in some circles) seems to have provoked case of the hissy-fits .... nowt wrong wi' tha' - a good hissy-fit does clear the sinuses - 'cepting they keep on and on at it. And on. And on. Seems it was enough to drive our OP onto an ST1300 (now that's a drastic reaction).

Ahh. memories ... when I first learned to telemark, they were lotsa guys who couldn't help themselves with the technical suggestions. No amount of gentle brush-offs put 'em off. As I got better, and got better gear, they'd tell me how a purist could telemark effectively without waisted skiis and hi-lift Chilli bindings. Oh, puh-leese! When I got my first sea kayak, their equivalent mates "helped" me ... and when I got a lovely fast Mirage kayak with an integrated rudder, they told me I'd loose my expertise at "greenland" turns. Oh, puh-leese!! Now I want to know: who gave these same buggers R12rs?????

Oh, puh-leese I already know I'm inept. I have systems to help me. I like those systems. I like the new and improved versions of those systems even better. I ride more within my limits (limited as they are) than most riders I know ... and I know I have the extra margin provided by those systems. I'm happy. I don't wanna do Greenland turns, or be able to telemark on toothpicks. I just wanna ride my mo-tor-sickle (thanks, Arlo)

Anybody here need some aluminum foil ? I finished wrapping my head ....

ka5ysy wrote:Anybody here need some aluminum foil ? I finished wrapping my head ....

Just finished here as well. Have some extra foil if needed.

angellr wrote:

ka5ysy wrote:Anybody here need some aluminum foil ? I finished wrapping my head ....

Just finished here as well. Have some extra foil if needed.

I find the quilted foil is much more comfortable... (That probably makes me a wuss.. but I just don't care..)

Whats ABS? Is a bike with it better than one without?
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he he he

M249Joe wrote:Whats ABS? Is a bike with it better than one without?
he he he

If one is highly skilled, with the reactions of a cat, perfect hand eye foot coordination, pay 120% attention to your road situation 120% of the time and are extremely Lucky ABS is a waste of money. Apparently their are people like that.
The rest of us old duffers that bumble along the side of the road, head up our ass with no idea of what the h--l were doing, need it. I think that's been resolved.

I'm firmly entrenched in the second group.

mogu83 wrote:The rest of us old duffers that bumble along the side of the road, head up our ass with no idea of what the h--l were doing, need it. I think that's been resolved.

I'm firmly entrenched in the second group.

And Harry, I revel in your company!!

deilenberger wrote:

angellr wrote:

ka5ysy wrote:Anybody here need some aluminum foil ? I finished wrapping my head ....

Just finished here as well. Have some extra foil if needed.

I find the quilted foil is much more comfortable... (That probably makes me a wuss.. but I just don't care..)

You're right (as usual) ! The quilted stuff is more comfortable. Probably can be used as impact barrier as well !

If weight is the issue then go with the R1200R. I owned an ST1300. It is a great bike with my only disappointment being weight. I managed to deal with the heat issue but the weight of the bike and how it was distributed made it a problem at low speeds. Also the linked braking system combined with the weight caused many owners to drop their bikes at slow maneuvering. I bought a 2010 R1200R with the touring package and this bike does it all. It's 250 lbs lighter that the ST. I've put on a Cal Sci windshield, handlebar risers,lowered the pegs and a Sargent saddle. This bike truly gives me the sport touring that I have always wanted without the weight.

I have never ridden an ST but it was one of the bikes I seriously considered during my short "I'll never buy another BMW" moment. Well, I ended back on another BMW. But for many of the reasons the original poster (Ricco in case we forgot) inquired about.

I got off of a 1200GS because that damn big beast tried to run over my ass and lay on me, or so it seemed. My biggest problem was rolling the sucker around on my sloped driveway or out on the road loaded up. I could do it but it became work and a concern. The Roadster was much more manageable, even bypassed a lowered GS. It is noticably lighter and in the near future I think with a lower seat even better. I have 2 worn discs in my lower back and I never know what movement will lock me up so I am very careful when moving bikes, this one ranks as pretty easy for me.

One thing that comes with the BMW Roadster is more of a community. I used to go to the Honda shop for my Ducati work (I guess multiple brand shops are the norm) and no one ever came up to me and talked about my bike and the parts and service guys never really seemed "present", at least at this shop. You go into most any BMW shop and these guys are fanatic. You will get advice and problems solved without much effort, usually. This continues to influence me when shopping for a new mount. Yes, Harley does it too but BMW is the same but different.

Good luck

Chumley wrote: Yes, Harley does it too but BMW is the same but different.

Good luck

So true. I had the guys in the back of a Harley Dealership bend over backwards till 11:00 at night to get my Super Glide fixed and back on the road, many miles from home.
KTM has the same type of folks.
Lyle