My Bike Stinks

[Bob Ain't Stoppin']

Steve, That's interesting. I don't have the ABDECRING installed. But I do have a Bags Connection tank bag with the mount installed: http://www.twistedthrottle.com/bags-con ... 200r-06-08

This link looks like they have redesigned the mount, so I have an older version. Never suspected this could be a source of the problem. My smell test didn't indicate anything in the filler area. Why would that gasket cause a gas smell?

[BoxerSteve]

Bob, the ABDECKRING when installed on my bike seemed to cause the filler neck to be located slightly higher than without it installed, so it didn't seal correctly at the bottom where it contacts the tank anymore. But since nobody else seems to have had this problem apparently I didn't install it right or something.

[deilenberger]

Do you by any chance have the ABDECKRING installed? I had it on mine for a while and it made my bike smell like gas all the time. I took it back off, the gas smell went away. Maybe I didn't install it right, but it caused my R1200R to smell like gas.

Yes - I have had the ring on for about 3 years now, and not even a wiff of fuel smell (and I keep the bike in a closed garage with heat attached to my office..) I'd guess something went amiss with the installation if it causes a problem.

[Bob Ain't Stoppin']

Guys, Thanks much for you comments. I'm on hold on this for a week or two. Gotta ride this weekend. I'll come home with an empty tank after one of these rides. By then will have the quick disconnect kit form Beemer Boneyard. Will pull tank and install the kit and have a look see at the fill fittings at that time. Will post up when this is completed.

[Bob Ain't Stoppin']

So after two tanks of riding, I'm in the garage today to see about this gas smell issue. I now have on hand the quick disconnect kit from BeemerBoneYard. It's a nice piece of hardware. So here is the report with photos that Don E. asked for. I'll do this over several posts, as there are a number of photos.

Step one is to lay out the parts:


Quality looks good so go immediately to step 2, pull the tank off the bike:
Here's the shop layout. The bike is a 2008 model. You can see the Twisted Throttle tank bag mount on the gas filler.


I pulled off the two black beauty covers below the tank, and removed the fasteners to the side covers. They can stay in place as can the black front cover. Just remember to pull out the throttle cable where it sits in the slot. Here is the single fastener that secures the tank.


To get the tank off you need to remove the two vent/drain rubber hoses under the right front. The post thing in the foreground is the post for the rubber tank locator. I removed it for a better camera view:


And then remove the two wire connectors for fuel pump and gauge:


And finally the two quick disconnects for supply and return fuel lines:


To Be Continued

[Bob Ain't Stoppin']

Part 2

With the tank off the bike, we can start replacing parts. I could see nothing wrong with the OEM plastic disconnects. In fact, they look pretty much the same as the metal ones on the inside. But, if they break/leak for some guys, I'll just do the job while I'm in here. Same for the fuel pump outlet thread reenforcing ring.

Here is the pump area. You can see the two wire plugs. Note the locking tabs for the connectors. You simply lift back the tabs that are visible to get the plug to release. As you can see, there is no evidence of leakage.


A quick flip of the latching tab on the quick disconnect and the pump outlet connection is exposed. I used a 19mm open end to start the fitting off. No evidence of a crack in the pump housing. Once the fitting is loose, it comes off easily by hand.


Installing the reenforcing ring is easy. Just put it in place with the flat side flush to the housing. I used a 2.5mm allen and a 7/32" open end from my ignition wrench set.


The pipe dope that came with the kit is good stuff, and you put it on the male threads like this:


Then put on the new metal quick disconnect fitting and you're done with the pump housing.

To Be Continued

[Bob Ain't Stoppin']

Part 3

The next step is to replace the quick disconnects on the hoses. Every job has something to get you frustrated, and this is where it happens on this job. The barbed hose connections are really on there. A lot of force is required to pull the plastic fittings out of the hoses. Any suggestions for making that easier would be appreciated. (hot water didn't make any difference).

You start this process by cutting off the old metal clamp. Note the little dish to collect gas spills. Each time you separate a quick disconnect a couple tea spoons of gas will spill. Each time you pull a fitting out of the hose there is a drainage to deal with. Smarter people than I would likely have rubber gloves on for this operation:


Here is the assembly of the fitting onto the hose:


So you replace the three female and one male fittings on the hoses at the tank. Then you have to do the two on the bike side. You'll get a bit of gas leakage here as there is likely still a bit of pressure in the system.


At each fitting you have to remember to slip the hose clamp over the hose before inserting the quick disconnect. Then tighten the clamp until the fitting won't turn easily inside the hose. With the six new fittings installed it's time to mount the tank back up. Here's a pic of the new fittings peaking out under the left side of the bike:


That's it for the install. Unfortunately, for all this work, you won't see any difference in the way the bike runs. I don't expect I'll see any change in the gas stink in the garage from this either. But stand by for part 4

To Be Continued

[Bob Ain't Stoppin']

Part 4

With the tank back on the bike, I had one more area to look at. There has been considerable discussion about the tank fill area. Corrosion issues under the filler cap was on my mind, and I wanted to insure that the vent hoses were properly working. So let's start by looking at the quick bag mount fitting I use with my Bags Connection City tank bag. I like this arrangement because the bag is secure and there are no straps to fiddle with. (I have no interest in a magnetic bag.)


Removal of the filler is a simple matter of a few screws (T25 torx). I pulled the filler neck out to look for corrosion. Hold that thought, but check out the plastic gasket. I don't remember seeing this when I installed the bag mount ring, but it certainly hasn't held up well. The rubber gasket you see is fine, and is actually what does the work anyway.


So I cleaned off that cellophane and inspected the tank top area. Here it is before I touched it:


And again after cleaning with a rag:


Obviously, I don't have the problem of corrosion in this area. No idea why that would be.

I checked the two vent lines (one tank vent and one overflow). All looks in order. Checking the gas cap, it does appear that there is no seal when you close and latch the cap. I can blow right through the red tube. Makes me wonder if I should just plug the tank vent and let the cap be the primary vent method.

So the conclusion to all this? looks like I have two options to a sweet smelling garage. Well, maybe three:

1 - Don't put the bike in the garage . . . Sorry fagetaboudit.
2 - Don't fill up before coming home. This one might be doable in many cases. Nearest gas is up to 35 miles, depending on the direction I'm headed in, so I'd have to be careful in my planning.
3 - Put the darn charcoal canister back on. Don't even know if that will fix the issue though. The canister is always open to the atmosphere, regardless of the solenoid valve position. But with the solenoid closed (bike off), the vent is through the canister and thus stink proofed by the charcoal.

End Report

Comments and suggestions appreciated.

[deilenberger]

Bob,

Great photos! Thanks!

For removing the barbed fittings, I've used very thin needle-nose pliers - pushed between the end of the hose and the flat on the fitting (where the barb comes out).. using these you can rock the needle-nose a bit which does two things: It pushes on the end of the hose - helping move it off the barb; The pushing also compresses the hose a bit opening up the ID, making it easier to pull/push off the barb. The only worry doing this is that you might break the barb off, but if you're replacing it, that isn't a big concern (although getting the broken off bit out of the hose might be a chore, so don't break it.. )

One thing I noticed - the way the fuel filter sits and is tied down may be why we haven't heard of any leaking flange problems on the R12R's.. it's firmly tied down, and the hose isn't going to move around exerting pressure on the fitting going into the flange, which I suspect might be part of the reason the threaded hub likes to crack. Just a thought.

Looking forward to part #4...

[Bob Ain't Stoppin']

Don, I agree about the fuel filter. There is nothing pushing on these hoses when the tank is put in place.

Unfortunately, the plastic fittings have no flat area where the hose buts up. So I couldn't really get a push on the hose for removal. I did, in fact break one barb off. Used a lag screw to pull the barb out. As you know, pulling on the hose tries to shrink the diameter, making it even harder to get it off the barbs. Sometimes heat is a help, but not in this case for me.

[deilenberger]

Bob, posted the message above as you were submitting #4.

The plastic-cellophane looking stuff looks like something someone sprayed into the recess to try to avoid rust. I think BoeShield looks a lot like that if you peel it off (what I used on mine.) I sprayed mine in with the cap assembly in place, so it would just end up on the metal outside the rubber gasket. It seemed to have worked since when I installed the sealing ring around the cap edge it stayed in place and didn't peel up. Did you buy this bike new, or was it used? If used - the former owner may have been a member here and done the spray..

Now - a question. What "red tube"? The cap is supposed to seal when it is closed. The rubber gasket around it is spring loaded to seal around the opening on the red plastic bit. The tank vent itself is located at the top of the tank inside, and goes to one of the hoses you removed when removing the tank. The other drain is the rain-sloppy fill drain from the gutter around the filler opening. This should be outside the sealed area on the cap, so it isn't sealed, but it also shouldn't be a source of any smell.

While it certainly would be worthwhile to reinstall the canister to see if that eliminates the problem, it isn't the base cause of the problem since many of us are riding bikes where the canister fell off, or if not in the US - where there wasn't any canister to begin with. And we don't experience any odor problems.

BTW - I still haven't figured out what function of the clapper thingie hanging down under the cap assembly is. I also haven't studied it a bunch since I found the smell of gasoline encouraged me to replace the assembly as quickly as possible whenever I've had it off.

Best regards,

[deilenberger]

Just thought of something. If by "red tube" you mean the filler neck tube, and you can blow through it with the cap latched closed, something is wrong with your cap. You should not be able to do that.. and that's probably where the smell is coming from. Nicked gasket? Broken spring? Bent something?

[Bob Ain't Stoppin']

Spring?? My cap has a fixed cone and gasket arrangement. If there was ever a spring, it was broken when I bought the bike. Please double check yours to confirm there is a spring. Anybody else?

[dbrick]

Is the annular gasket (at the larger end of the cone) in good shape? How about the metal ring (on the top part of the red plastic nozzle assembly) that contacts the gasket?

[Bob Ain't Stoppin']

It basically looks like brand new. But there is no spring action at all. It's a fixed arrangement. Is yours? Perhaps I need to make up a shim to tighten up the gasket? This tank bag mount may mess up the dimensions a bit.

[dbrick]

No, there's no spring, my bike's cap assembly is a fixed arrangement and looks like yours.

a) On the cap on my bike, there's a rubber gasket at the base of the bigger end of the red plastic cone. This gasket presses onto the shiny metal ring that circles the hole into which the fuel nozzle fits. It's hard to see in the photo of your bike's cap. Is the rubber gasket there?

b) As the cap latches closed, it feels as though the shiny metal ring is being pressed into that rubber gasket. With the cap latched, I can push the cap further closed just a bit against the springyness of the rubber gasket. Does yours move like that?

[Bob Ain't Stoppin']

Dave, I just looked at the cap to confirm that it matches yours. The rubber gasket shows white discoloration in my picture, but it's soft and plyable like new. If you pry up the gasket, you'll see underneath a circular leaf spring. Turns out that's what gives that springy feeling you mentioned.

I would expect to see a slight to moderate groove in the rubber where it meets the metal ring in the tank top. There is no groove to evidence contact in mine. I think it latches too easily to say that I'm compressing the gasket. Thus the lack of a seal. This may be because of the tank bag mounting ring.

I'll be around a bunch of Beemers this next weekend and will compare my cap to some of the others.

[deilenberger]

Dave, I just looked at the cap to confirm that it matches yours. The rubber gasket shows white discoloration in my picture, but it's soft and plyable like new. If you pry up the gasket, you'll see underneath a circular leaf spring. Turns out that's what gives that springy feeling you mentioned.

I would expect to see a slight to moderate groove in the rubber where it meets the metal ring in the tank top. There is no groove to evidence contact in mine. I think it latches too easily to say that I'm compressing the gasket. Thus the lack of a seal. This may be because of the tank bag mounting ring.

I'll be around a bunch of Beemers this next weekend and will compare my cap to some of the others.

Exactly. That's the spring I was referring to. Take some care around it. The one on my old K75S had a really sharp edge and took a good sized slice out of me once (three stitches to close it up) when my hand slipped filling the tank.

As Bob noted - the gasket is supposed to be compressed to SEAL the tank when the cap is closed. That bends this spring a bit (which also is why the cap pops up when you turn the key.) If the spring is incorrect somehow, or the gasket damaged, that could be the reason for smelling gasoline fumes. With the filler assembly removed and the cap assembled to it and snapped shut, you should not be able to blow through the red filler tube.

[Bob Ain't Stoppin']

I'm going to see about putting a shim under the spring area (if I can disassemble it). That should bring the gasket back into contact with the metal ring.

It must be that the tank bag fitting is made just a shade too thick, and increases the height of the flip top.

[Bob Ain't Stoppin']

Update for the few that are following this. I just looked at the filler cap assembly. I don't see any way to space the gasket and cone parts closer to the fill tube. The only option I'm seeing is to add a second rubber gasket over the first. This would require gluing the new to the old. Anyone know of an adhesive that can stand up to the gas immersion?

After that look see, I went for a brief ride to confirm the fuel line work was leak free. Filled up with gas. On arrival home, I opened the filler door and found the entire overflow area was soaking wet. This confirms that there is no seal at the cap gasket. So my final diagnosis is that the filler cap is the source of my stink, and fixing the gasket will be the solution.