BMW R1200R R1150R/T F800 K1200R R1100R/T R1250R RnineT Message Board

RonR wrote:

deilenberger wrote:You do NOT need this for this bike. We don't have no stink'in servo assist. Thats for whizzy brake models, and no R12R's have whizzy brakes (a true blessing IMHO..)

OK, you got me. What are "whizzy brakes?"

Servo assisted power brakes. BMW came up with the idea for these on the 1100/1150 series bikes and carried them over to the earlier 1200's. Used an electric motor driven pump to give power assist to the brakes. As can be shown by how well the R1200R non-whizzy brakes work - it was an answer to a question that didn't need asking. These brakes were touchy, grabby, expensive to service and repair and noisy. Other than that - they were OK.. I guess. Had them on my '04 R1150RS. They had a grabby tendency that resulted in a lot of parking lot drops for people.

Thanks Don. I guess I'll return that unnecessary $49 tool after it gets here (already shipped). I assume that the instruction DVDs will show what tools are needed to R&R the brake fluid. If not, I'll be asking some questions when I get there.

I have watched the Jim Von Baden DVD and reviewed the BMW service manual regarding brake line bleeding and am left with a couple of questions for those of you who have been down this road:

The JVB approach starts by bleeding lines between the front control bleed point on the ABS control unit (access to which requires fuel tank removal), then at the rear control bleed point, and the master cylinder. Following that, he bleeds at the rear wheel caliper from the rear breather cap on the ABS unit using the Mini-Stan funnel (the same $50 tool referenced in my earlier post which I purchased and wouldn't mind returning), then the front wheel cylinder breather cap to the left, then right, front calipers. It's notable that he has, and needs, the help of a second pair of hands during this process. Also, he removes the calipers and inserts wooden shims to force back the pistons.

In contrast, the BMW service manual doesn't reference the ABS control unit at all in its bleeding procedures. It illustrates a simple bleeding procedure between the front and rear cylinders and their respective calipers. It assumes the use of a partial-vacuum brake bleeding tool (unspecified). The calipers remain mounted and the pistons are forced back with the use of a ridiculously expensive BMW-specific "piston resetting device" and "locater" (also referred to as "adapter") - $545!!!

Questions:

1. Is it necessary to separately bleed the lines to the ABS control unit as JVB does?
2. I can deal with removing the calipers but not buying BMW's apparently solid gold tool. Any ideas for forcing back pistons other than wooden shims?
3. What vacuum tools have you used and do you recommend. I would prefer to be able to do this solo.

Thanks in advance for any help and/or ideas.

Ron - the JVB DVD is referencing the Whizzy brakes again. The BMW manual is correct. It's stone simple to flush the brake on the R12R (and you shouldn't be "bleeding" them since you shouldn't get air into the systems.)

RonR wrote:I have watched the Jim Von Baden DVD and reviewed the BMW service manual regarding brake line bleeding and am left with a couple of questions for those of you who have been down this road:

Snippage

1. Is it necessary to separately bleed the lines to the ABS control unit as JVB does?

No. Wrong brake system.

2. I can deal with removing the calipers but not buying BMW's apparently solid gold tool. Any ideas for forcing back pistons other than wooden shims?

Wood shims work fine. Easier to do if you open the caliper bleed as you push the piston back - that forces the ugly fluid out right at the bleed fitting. Doesn't push it back up into the system. Then close the bleed fitting and proceed with normal bleed.

3. What vacuum tools have you used and do you recommend. I would prefer to be able to do this solo.

I don't. Some people love a MitiVac. I had very poor luck with it - could never tell when a system was air free due to air sucked in around the bleeder threads. Some friends LOVE "Speedbleeders" - which are check-valve replacement bleed fittings. Hook a hose to the Speedbleeder into a jug, open it, go to the reservior, and pump away. Close bleeder when fluid is clean. Makes for a very easy one-man job. And no vacuum needed.

Thanks in advance for any help and/or ideas.

No problem.

Thanks again for your experience and advice, Don. I have ordered a set of Speedbleeders and will post my impressions when the time comes.

Hey for once we are a bit cheaper here in Oz - my 20,000km service was $633 but that included a Michelin Pilot road fitted for $208, so about $425 if we assume no charge for fitting the tyre. That included 3 hours labour @ $90.

I figure I will pay for services for at least the 2 year warranty period (yes I know, 3 years in N America).

I have owned a Norton Commando for 35 years and can pull it apart down to every last nut and bolt blindfolded so until the RR I had never paid for a service.

I reckon I could work out most mechanical things but how hard is it to 'balance the injectors' (forgive me if that is not the right terminology- you can see in which era my experience finishes)?

I was amazed about how smooth my bike was after the 20,000km service, but now it is at 29,000 km and due for its next service in 1,000km it is feeling more like my Commando every day with 'manly' vibes at low revs.

I thought I had read on this forum that it is very difficult to get this right without the expensive equipment. I cannot imagine most dealers being too happy about being asked to only do this and not the full service.

Any comments on whetehr it is possible to balance the injectors at home? If it were possible, I reckon I would check this myself about every 5,000km.

[Those of you with the distinguished look, ie grey hair and riding for countless years will recognise that I am suffering from severe withdrawal symptoms of having no mechanical things to fiddle with on a Saturday arvo - not even a chain to adjust, no nuts working themselves loose from vibrations, the electrics don't smoke, no oil leaks, etc..."]

MvK

mvk wrote:Any comments on whetehr it is possible to balance the injectors at home? If it were possible, I reckon I would check this myself about every 5,000km.

Actually - I'm just finishing up writing an illustrated DIY for the BMW-MOA Forums.. should be on the air in a day or so. Remind me if I don't post the URL for it here.. (I believe you can view it without being a member..)

[Those of you with the distinguished look, ie grey hair and riding for countless years will recognise that I am suffering from severe withdrawal symptoms of having no mechanical things to fiddle with on a Saturday arvo - not even a chain to adjust, no nuts working themselves loose from vibrations, the electrics don't smoke, no oil leaks, etc..."]

MvK

I know the feeling.. but farkling can help replace the fiddling urge. Some of us carry it to extremes and keep re-engineering prior farkles.. (ex brit-bike-owner syndrome..)

you're my hero don...